Elk Konnected Hand out at County Commissioners meeting on 4/25

[flintauqua]

I do believ,e I communicated my point quite clearly, that being, should people that live a distance from Howard be required to pay through property tax for Howard to receive a Community Storm Shelter outside of their city limits.

And I believe I communicated my point quite clearly.  What are the top two reasons for the shelter?  To shelter the children, teachers and staff that attend and work at the school complex, and too provide some needed room for K-6 P.E. classes.  If there is room left over for others to shelter there, especially if it is in the evening, night, weekend, or during summer break, then what is the harm in that?  

If it were built and only students and personnel were allowed to use it, you'd be screaming from the rooftops about how selfish and wasteful it was to have such a facility available and not let the public utilize it.  

What if a tornado warning goes up at 5 pm on a Saturday in April, or at any time of any day in the month of June or July?  "Oh, sorry, can't use the storm shelter even though there is no one in it".  What if one occurs during the FFA awards banquet, a Saturday volleyball match, or the school play?  "West Elk Students and staff to the storm shelter, the rest of you parents and guests are on your own."  

These are just basic examples of what you are suggesting, and they are not only possible, but probable.  The school complex was barely missed by a small tornado shortly after it was built, resulting in some roof damage.  And it happened when school was not in session.

It is not a Howard vs Moline, Severy or Elk Falls thing so quit trying to make it into one!

[frawin]

Charlie, I have been staying away from the Forum since Ross has made it his own personal NEGATIVE public Forum. I couldn't, resist telling you how good your post is and how much sense it makes. The only reason I saw your posting was someone called me from Howard and told me I had to read  the really dumb post that Ross had made, which was the last one he made and you responded to. Most everyone I have talked to thinks the west Elk school board is doing a great job. I have to agree, the students at all levels are doing great in all of the  competition they face. They have won honors at all levels. The students going on to college are getting great scholarships and getting on Honor Rolls at the university level.

[flintauqua]

How about the School District build a Community Storm shelter in Moline, Elk Falls, Longton and Grenola as well?

Do you even read before you type?  I just corrected your geography and yet you continue to put Grenola and Longton in the West Elk School District.  No property in Grenola is taxed by West Elk USD 282, the local school property tax levied in Grenola goes to Central of Burden USD 462.  No property in Longton is taxed by West Elk USD 282, the local school property tax levied in Longton goes to Elk Valley USD 283.

Next time you're in the courthouse, take a look at the map on the west wall of the treasurers office!  It shows all the different taxing units in the county, and which taxing entities cover what area of the county.

[Ross]

Do you even read before you type?  I just corrected your geography and yet you continue to put Grenola and Longton in the West Elk School District.  No property in Grenola is taxed by West Elk USD 282, the local school property tax levied in Grenola goes to Central of Burden USD 462.  No property in Longton is taxed by West Elk USD 282, the local school property tax levied in Longton goes to Elk Valley USD 283.

Next time you're in the courthouse, take a look at the map on the west wall of the treasurers office!  It shows all the different taxing units in the county, and which taxing entities cover what area of the county.

Okay I goofed, I'm human, so pardon me. Still the points stand it' is taxation of people out side of Howard to provide a Community Storm Shelter for Howard out side of the Howard City Limits.  I still contend if Howard wants a community storm shelter build it themselves. What is your opinion.

But just the same thanks for pointing that out. I will look into getting a map of the school district.

[Ross]

Let's look at the West Elk long term Educational Plan that we paid T.D. and Associates of 506 Ridgewood Circle, Carl Junction, Missouri  a $1500 consulting fee and mileage of 840 miles times $.55 a mile for $462 for a grand total of $1962.00 taxpayers dollars. That was Chris Christman who has email address at Pitt State.

I wonder why the school board does not publish this amazing study they hired done?
Wasn't it worth the money? Is it because it was a job they could have and should have accomplished as the School Board of Education?

Let's continue to look at this report, shall we. My remarks are in parenthesis and ar simply my personal opinion.
Can you add your thoughts about this report, I'd like to read them and perhaps some of the school board members might appreciate community input other than just my input. After all I am just an unedumacated old redneck taxpaying happy go lucky guy that perhaps they find offensive cause I lack the finesse to sweet talk and twist words. But that's okay with me. At least I don't sit in the audience at the school board and rudely laugh when a school board member is addressing a serious issue and there is nothing to laugh at. How rude, how crude, how uncouth! If the meeting is interrupted again by high school children attitude of laughing and snickering when a particular board member is speaking again in my presence and the Konnected of the board lacks the guts to
put a stop to it perhaps I should tell those folks that the childish bullying should cease.

Moving on.

Group: Administration

1.   Facilities

         (What about them, is this know as communicating?)


2. Curriculum - Supplement to fit the Common Core.


3. Retain/Recruit staff.


4. How are we helping our kids?

           (Shouldn't it be how well are we teaching our kids?
            To quote this report only above average in a state with very low standards.
               Is that good enough, is that all you can do?)

5. Community involvement - need to increase.

         (Well, use all that high tech that you claim us old folks don't understand the importance of. Or don't you understand the importance of communication through high tech.)

Question: Issues to be Considered When Creating A Plan
Group: Parents/Patrons/Community

1.   Finances – Local and State

(Wouldn't that be normal budgeting provided by the school board?)

2.   Misinformation – Communication

                  (Get busy - use all that high tech that you claim us old folks don't understand the importance of. Or don't you understand the importance of communication through high tech.)

3.   Older generation doesn't see the importance of technology – they got along with just reading, writing and arithmetic.

        (You old folks that got college degrees I guess your degree isn't any good anymore. And since you don't understand the importance of technology, I guess ya got someone else doing yer internet business for you, right?

I wonder if that pertains to our School Superintendent, I think he is as old as or maybe even older than I am. Do ya reckon he should be replaced buy a 30 something? And how about them teacher s over 40 aren't they considered to be older as well? We do know you don't have to equip every room and every student with a computer. You can teach computer in a computer lab or class and numerous students can log on in their own name, each having their own account on the computer. If the students wish to use a computer at home to do their home work they can buy their own computer, or use the library computer or a friend's computer. If you think white boards are a must in the class room to simplify the teachers teaching job and let the computer teach sign up for on-line schooling and get rid of the teacher and higher class room monitors.  You have already purchased programs that can do the student grading for the teachers, haven't you? Oh, wait a minute I'm an old guy and don't understand this high tech stuff, so pardon me.)

4.   Increasing number of absentee land owners.
5.   Declining population.
6.   Aging population.

(4, 5 and 6 are nothing new, now are they?)

7.   Land owners can not afford more taxes.

          (Do you reckon that is the main problem with trying to raise money to build a Taj Mahal for Howard to claim?)

8.   Unable to convince the community 5 years ago on a long term plan.

         (Just what efforts were made to communicate with the community 5 y4ears ago.)

9.   Facilities – scary as we search for replacement teachers.

                 (What is scary about a building is there ghost in there?)

10.   FEMA money still available for a Community Shelter.

          That's great, let the community of Howard apply for the grant and let them build a community center inside their community. Not at the school taxpayers expense. Tell them to mooch else where. They have already stolen from West Elk and I don't see them moving the signs concerning the West Elk Boys Track signs being placed on each side of West Elk. Yea, just what do they do for the kids? Steal their glory that's what, in my humble opinion.

11.   Problem with Bond – people didn't realize that the schools would close and modular would be installed if the bond didn't pass.

                (I think the proper thing here is you the school board didn't realize the people told you a loud and clear --- NO. Put in them modulars at or maybe in excess of ¼ million dollars even though you considered them eyesores. Thought that would teach them voters. But now you are talking of putting all the children inside the school building, I find that very disgraceful towards the taxpayers. To waste ¼ million dollars on that eyesore, it was just to punish the taxpayer and voter wasn't it? Just where do you think the wounds come from, that you speak of in #13? How do you think wounds are made?)

12.   Think people like being on one campus – more efficient.

               (Who thinks that?
                What people?
                Is it  Howard people?)
               
13.   Still old wounds in our community.

(And in my opinion you continue to feed them, the majority vote apparently means very little to you the school board. Or you would quit pushing for more construction when you have a perfectly good grade school in Moline that is saying shame one you each and every day it stays closed.)

14.   Focus on what is best for the kids, kids usually don't have the issue – it's the parent's problem.

               (None of this is a kids issue but your point comes across loud and clear. Blame the parents and the board does not have to accept any responsibility. But actually aren't you blaming the voters that told you NO? What part of NO is it that you don't understand? Isn't that what we ask our kids when they keep pushing for a yes answer?)

15.   Never been on any type of review on the state level.

        (Never been a Blue Ribbon School doing your very best either, right?)

16.   Always above average.

              (Just hang in there being a little above average in a low standard state. Good job, not.)

17.   Facilities will be a tough sell with declining enrollment.

(Now that is one smart statement. I personally don't understand why you want to try to sell a Community Storm Shelter for Howard and new Gym when you have already heard from the voters. Exactly what has changed?)

18.   Raising taxes will not bring families or jobs.
 

            (Now finally something very understandable.

19.   Facility would bring students.

                 Now this is not understandable at all, where will they come from.
                  Can you even lure the children back from Elk Valley USD 283?

20.   On - line classes and home schooling – lack social skills.

                    (School is not the only place to acquire social skill is it.
                     And a student doesn't have to contend with bullying as reported by the kids in another area of this report, right?)

21.   College being pushed to go on-line.
   
                        (Just about everything and every one, Companies and governments are on line. When I lived in Washington State 10 years ago I could look up my county and school taxes on line with the county government. I could also look up the county's assed value of my property. I could also watch the School Board and County Commissioners meetings on line. Don't we understand the importance of this high tech stuff?)

But hey don't none of you folks believe any of this stuff, find out for yourself. This is just my personal opinion and nothing more.

God night all.

[Ross]

Charlie, I have been staying away from the Forum since Ross has made it his own personal NEGATIVE public Forum. I couldn't, resist telling you how good your post is and how much sense it makes. The only reason I saw your posting was someone called me from Howard and told me I had to read  the really dumb post that Ross had made, which was the last one he made and you responded to. Most everyone I have talked to thinks the west Elk school board is doing a great job. I have to agree, the students at all levels are doing great in all of the  competition they face. They have won honors at all levels. The students going on to college are getting great scholarships and getting on Honor Rolls at the university level.

What crap you dish out the forum is very large and this is but one thread out of many. Therefore, I have not made the forum my own.
That is just plain nasty of you to say and a form of bullying. Were you a bully in school?


Your remarks contradict what the school board says in their report. They say they are doing just above average. And the state says they have lowered the standards considerably over the years. That is really strange that you disagree with the elected school board officials. But hey more power to you.

Sure there are always a few that excel and that is great but the school is school is graded on the performance of all the students. If the grading was based on only the few that excel all schools would be Blue Ribbon Schools all the time.

[flintauqua]

Still the points stand it' is taxation of people out side of Howard to provide a Community Storm Shelter for Howard out side of the Howard City Limits.

And it is also taxation of people inside of Howard for a classroom/storm shelter that will be used by students that come from both within Howard, and outside of Howard.  You make it sound as if Howard would not be contributing at all. 

And don't say that was not what you meant, you've fed us that line way too many times for any of us to believe you. 

The shelter, if built, would be there for the school first, not for Howard residents exclusive use, as you continue to try and make people believe.  And if it were open to the public, that would mean THE PUBLIC, not just residents of Howard.

I often drive through Baxter Springs Kansas on the way to and from Elk County.  I know there is a public storm shelter there, and that it is open to anyone who might be in need of shelter from a tornado.  Do I pay property taxes in the city of Baxter Springs, the Baxter Springs school district or Cherokee County.  No.  So why should they let me use their shelter?

[flintauqua]

Your remarks contradict what the school board says in their report. They say they are doing just above average.

Will you please quote verbatim where in the document the school board says "they are doing just above average"?

Did they say "above average" and you just had to stick on the "just" to make it sound derogatory?  Wouldn't be the first time you tried that.  (And unfortunately it won't be the last from you will it CCTP?)

[Ross]

I felt a need to revisit your remarks as follows:

I am responding only to point out an error in geography in the above statement.  Far east Elk County is in the Fredonia School District, USD 484 or in the Elk Valley School District, USD 283 as is the southeast corner.  Far southwest Elk County is in the Central of Burden School District, USD 462 and there is even a chunk in the far northwest corner that is in the Eureka School District, USD 389. 

Please don't confuse the boundaries of Elk County with the boundaries of the separate taxing entity of West Elk Unified School District 282.

A more appropriate and geographically correct question would be:

"Would the parents that live in a portion of south-central Greenwood County or a portion of north-central Chautauqua County, and the other land owners of said areas, pay more school property taxes to provide a storm shelter for the protection of the areas' children while in school in central Elk County; a shelter that can also serve as a physical education classroom?"

I don't recall stating the other communities are inside the West Elk School District.
However if you notice they are a part of the Elk County Community. And they way of twisting words through out this thread concerning the word Community such as the Elk Konnected, LLC Community which I have asked for a definition of and have never received, I would think that these actual Community's should qualify for protection as well. So that leaves me to believe that you believe that only the Community of Howard should qualify to suck off of the teet of the School District school Tax payers. Is that a correct assumption?

My remarks include this statement:

Should the School District be required to provide for only the Howard Community?
How about the School District build a Community Storm shelter in Moline, Elk Falls, Longton and Grenola as well?

Thank you.

I did not state all the Communities are a part of the School District. But what about that Elk Konnected, about all the communities working or pulling together. I guess that is simply when, where and if you Followers think they should pull together, huh? Where do you think all them wounds come from, that are so greatly expounded on?

And it is also taxation of people inside of Howard for a classroom/storm shelter that will be used by students that come from both within Howard, and outside of Howard.  You make it sound as if Howard would not be contributing at all. 

Well please let me clarify!  First I said a storm shelter for the protection of the children at school would be acceptable most likely by the taxpayers. Designed to hold the number of people and students that attend at that location. However to add the extra square footage to hold the Community of Howard would be rather expensive and not a requirement of the School District. Just as it is not a requirement of the School District to provide a Community Storm Shelter for any other Community.

By your analogy however, the School District should be required to provide a Community Storm Shelter for Moline as well, because those people contribute to the School District as well and how about Severy they contribute as well don't they? Or is it only Howard as Contributors that should benefit from the teet of the School District property owner taxpayer.  Are the liberals only interested in freebies for Howard?

And don't say that was not what you meant, you've fed us that line way too many times for any of us to believe you. 

I'm sorry, I can say what ever I wish, freedom of speech don't ya know.
And if you recall I ask people not to believe anything I post at all. I ask that they make their on decisions and talk about it. You know what, I don't even care if they laugh at me or laugh with me. It is strictly their decision.

The shelter, if built, would be there for the school first, not for Howard residents exclusive use, as you continue to try and make people believe.  And if it were open to the public, that would mean THE PUBLIC, not just residents of Howard.

If the Storm Shelter is built it should be built only to house the number of people that work and go to school there, to hold down expenses for all the taxpayers of the School District and that includes holding down the taxes on the people of Howard.

If Howard wants to Build a Community Storm Shelter, I say go for it. They can build what ever they want inside their Community. They can build a storm shelter to house 100 to 3000 people, I could care less. If they went with a Shelter to hold 5,000 they could hold everyone in Elk County and anyone driving through. But I doubt the Howard City Council or the citizens would approve of such a monstrosity because their community property taxes would have to be increased dramatically. Oh, did you notice all the properties in Howard that are going up for sale on the Court House Steps for failure to pay taxes. People apparently don't want to keep paying taxes on the property with in Howard and ar willing to let go of the property. That in itself is a bad omen in my way of thinking.

I often drive through Baxter Springs Kansas on the way to and from Elk County.  I know there is a public storm shelter there, and that it is open to anyone who might be in need of shelter from a tornado.  Do I pay property taxes in the city of Baxter Springs, the Baxter Springs school district or Cherokee County.  No.  So why should they let me use their shelter?

Well as I stated above, let the City of Howard build their own Storm Shelter, let Howard get their own FEMA Grant, let Howard take the initiative  to build their own Storm Shelter and build it as large as they want.

I have been told that a FEMA funded Storm Shelter is required to be left open 24 hours a day 3 days a week, do you know if this is true?

So you really believe that only he City of Howard should be permitted to suck at the teet of the School District is that it? To hell with the rest of our communities and citizens in Elk County, right? But you to are entitled to your personal opinion and to voice it under the Freedom of Speech Act.

My opinion is that the Community Storm Shelter is simply a crutch to screw the taxpayers into building a new gym and to get rid of what Howard or someone considers an eyesore and to build a new gym and has absolutely nothing to do with educating the children. The trailers were simply a big enough waste of taxpayers mone as proved at the last school board meeting by stating they are going to move all the children into the main building. 1/4 of a million dollars there about's or maybe even more down the drain. I am waiting anxiously for the receipts to verify this amount.

Thank you for the dialog.

[Ross]

Will you please quote verbatim where in the document the school board says "they are doing just above average"?

Did they say "above average" and you just had to stick on the "just" to make it sound derogatory?  Wouldn't be the first time you tried that.  (And unfortunately it won't be the last from you will it CCTP?)

I posted that and I stand corrected they say above average it was my slip to say slightly, but them they didn't state how far above average did they? But average is still just average isn't it?

This is taken from their report verbatim except for my remarks in parenthesis.  I hope that helps you out.

Group: Administration[/b][/center]


15.   Never been on any type of review on the state level.

         (Never been a Blue Ribbon School doing your very best either, right?)

16.   Always above average.

               (Just hang in there being a little above average in a low standard state. Good job, not.)

They won't dispute the slightly above average remark will they?