PC late 1870's early 1880's shirts

[Sonora]

Pards,

       Do any of you have a source for period correct "dress" shirts? 
I have tried various vendors, and have not been able to find what I am looking for. 
I buy ALL of my clothing from  www.waltontaylor.com as he is the best of the best, however,
he does not offer a shirt style for the early 1880's. I own several of his "travel" shirts, but they are an earlier style. 
What do you reccommend? 

Thanks,
Sonora

[Silver Creek Slim]

I have one of these. It is a "Gent" (CM63) from Frontier Classics. BTW, I bought it from The Fort in Lincoln, NE. 

Slim

[Sod Buster]

I have one of these. It is a "Gent" (CM63) from Frontier Classics. BTW, I bought it from The Fort in Lincoln, NE. 

Slim:
I have one of those too....it ain't no fun to iron..with all those 'rinkles' on it! 

[Advertising]

[Irish Dave]

Another good source, IMHO, is Jim Boeke at River Junction Trade Co., McGregor, IA.

Jim is an NCOWS Senator and knows his clothing. If you let him know you are looking for truly authentic, NCOWS-appropriate items, he will not steer you wrong.

Likewise Delmonico and Terry Lane at The Fort Old West Shop are also very knowledgeable and will put you on the right path.

[Delmonico]

I want to add that the FTC shirt is a full button, however those type were around, I have a collection of at least 30 filed in my computor at home right now.  I still have a few to crop though.

[Sonora]

I have been ordering shirts from River Junction, however the quality has steadily declined.  I have purchased from River Junction since I started reenacting the Old West about 5 years ago.  The shirts are somewhat shoddy and do not hold up well.  I like the pullover style that he offers,  and own several.  The main problem that I have with his shirts is the sleeve length issue.  I have long arms, and the sleeves on a size L just dont get it done.  If I up size to an XL, the shirt looks like a potato sack............

I am considering jarnigan or the quartermaster shop.

Sonora

[Dr. Bob]

Howdy Sonora,

Look at the shirts on The Quartermaster Shop web site.  Theirs is the pull over style.  Good luck!

[Will Ketchum]

Sonora, if you call River Junction and express your concerns to Mr Boeke I am sure he will make it right with you.  He wants his customers to be happy.

Will Ketchum

[James Hunt]

Let me bring this back to the top because I think it is an important topic. Many of us assuem - because many of the sellers suggest - that shirts, particularly work shirts remainced the same from the period of the civil war thru the turn of the century. I know they did not, but honestly am unclear on some of those changes. So the continuanceof this topic is for my edification as much as anything else.

I assume that by the mid 1870's we are starting to see some changes towards a shirt we would be more familiar with:

a - shorter, no longer mid thigh length
b - more tapered and not so square cut
c - detachable collars of the style we are seeing at the turn of the century
d - changes or refinement in material?
e - changes or greater selection in patterns?
f - what are we not seeing any more (the use of frocks or the missouri guerilla type shirt)?

I am interested in comments from those who have studied the issue. Thanks

[Delmonico]

You are going to see those slowly changing, nothing so drastic as what styles change today.  You also see more full button shirts and for a while in the 80's and 90's, dress shirts that button up the back. 

One thing few realize is that most shirts that were considered work shirts, not a dress shirt that got regulated to a work shirt, had fold down collars rather than the band collar.  Reason is simple, when it is cold out you fold the collar up to keep the neck warm.  You will also start seeing dress shirts with fold town collars, mostly rounded but by the 90's you will see some coming to more of a point. 

I did a long study a while back that I am far from finished with where I looked at every picture and every shirt in the 3000 some pictures in the Butcher collection.  I found over 30 which are full button and many more you can not tell because of a vest or coat.  Also found many of the button up the back kind or ones you assume are because there are no buttons or placket on the front.

[Fox Creek Kid]

All factory made shirts had hand stitched button holes until the later 1870's AND more importantly (and grossly neglected by almost all makers of repros) they had HORIZONTAL button holes. If the shirt has vertical button holes it's FARB. 

[Two Flints]

Fox Creek,

Does anyone make a shirt with horizontal button holes?

Two Flints

[Fox Creek Kid]

Any good Civil War sutler has 'em. Just do a Google search under Civil War sutlers.

[Delmonico]

At the time of the start of the Civil War, the vast majority of shirts have the horizonal button hole, by the time of the turn of the century the vertical seems to be in a slight majority, based on museum specimans. 

I can not find my notes on when the mechanical button holer was invented and came into use, no matter, better quality shirts have sewn button holes because when done with skill they are still today of beter quality that machine made ones.  Of course it is a simple task for anyone to sit down with any factory made shirt and cure the button hole problem in an hour or so.

As for Farbes it used to be out to the mall, but didn't the spelling have two e's on the end?   Any way not matter the only one I knew of has be replaced by a Tex-Mex place, I ate there once, was yuppie foo foo food similar to Applebee's, TGIF and Ruby Tuesday.

Note to those who may PM Will Ketchum or may already have PMed him as one has me.  No, NCOWS is not planning on adding the button hole police, these details are not needed unless one is working on an outfit for a juried event.

[Fox Creek Kid]

http://www.hedgehoghandworks.com/catalog/BKCT6007.shtml

[Books OToole]

That is a great book but it is not all inclusive.  There were styles that show up in photographs that are not represented.

All that are included are from known orginal shirts in collections/museums.

Books

[Delmonico]

Wish I had a dollar for everything that can be proved wrong in history books.  One must get yer hands dirty with hands on research, it is the only way to be sure.

[Fox Creek Kid]

What you say is true men, but museums are about the only place you'll find surviving samples. I know no one personally who has a surviving shirt from the 1870's. Then again, that would be but one sample. What we are talking about (IMO) is a "standard".

[Delmonico]

Guess I'll have to ask the NSHS Muesem to toss out some of their stuff, got a chance a few years ago to go down in the climate controled area and do some looking.

If we go with EVERYTHING that could be called standard, few if any would meet the standard.   Always thought if it was there in common usage (what ever the heck that means) it could be used. 

[Dr. Bob]

Being a vintage clothing collector, I have looked at a whole lot of shirts.  Most of the shirts from the 1930's, 1940's and early 1950's have vertical button holes.  Just turned around and looked at a shirt that I have from the early 1900 and it is made for a button on collar and has vertical button holes.  A shirt from the 30's has the button on collar and vertical buttons holes as well.  I haven't handled any 19th Century shirts and can't say what was common.  I think that vertical would be the norm.