This is not NCOWS

[Camille Eonich]

But in SASS that fantasy equates to a Winners title and promotiional money and State/Regional and National recognition and more money and/or a business venture and/or a way to make an income playing or become rich faster than a regular job.  This is what differentiates Some SASS Players from the above personages that are in it just for fun.

NCOWS has regional matches and they award prizes don't they?  They do recognize the winners in some way don't they?

There are very, very few people in SASS that are making money from their recognition and some that could that flat out refuse to.  Have you ever heard of Island Girl?  Most that play in CAS have.  Do you know how many people have offered to pay her for to put on shooting schools and how many times she has turned them down?  She'll go and do them for free but she won't take money for it.  Taylors recently added and Island Girl gun to their line.  Do you know what Island Girl makes off it?  Nothing and she shoots those now instead of her Colts.  Do you know why?  Because the guns come out of the box usable for competition and at a fair price.  She does it for promotion of the game.  Are all of the champions out there like that?  No but then not everyone in NCOWS is there for the authenticity either.


Then you're talking about clubs making money off of SASS.  There may be some somewhere but I can tell you that it's not much and when it comes time to replace steel any profit really takes a hit.  Do we look at it as a business in some sense?  Yes, the entertainment business.  When people pay their 10 or $15 dollar entry fee they deserve to have a good time.


I haven't read the Venturino article but from what I have heard about it he really put down SASS and the participants of it.  The people over there that commented on it were exercising their 1st amendment rights just as Venturino was.  I have seen the reactions in here when someone come sin and start ridiculing NCOWS and they are no different than the reactions to Venturino's article about SASS.

[Fox Creek Kid]

There's no winning here when someone uses the secular argument of "shoot your own game". This SASS mentality has become the dominant theme in CAS as Mr. Venturino so aptly pointed out. It all boils down to those who love history for history's sake and who FEEL A DUTY TO PRESERVE THE PAST as opposed to those who just want to "shoot their own game". Some are able to rise above their own selfish and ethnocentric compulsions to see a bigger picture to try & preserve a time that was, not a time that they wish it to have been. That is the appeal of NCOWS for me. Some look at a Civil War battlefield and see the legacy of brave men fallen on sacred ground. Others see a shopping mall. 

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

AW! DARN!  I don't have time now to review all the boards I like to checkout.  (After spending too long reviewing this thread.)

Lets get back to biznis!

[Advertising]

[Marshal Halloway]

NCOWS as a non-profit and member driven organization has taken some beating lately and some individuals will continue to hammer on some dead issues for quite some time.

However, NCOWS has taken a stand, to stop what they concider a negative evolution of the sport within NCOWS policy. It takes guts to do it and there is a price to pay for doing it. It is called criticism.

But the majoriy has spoken and NCOWS has decided to go back to basics and move on from there.

This is NCOWS as of today.

[RRio]

I haven't read the Venturino article but from what I have heard about it he really put down SASS and the participants of it.  The people over there that commented on it were exercising their 1st amendment rights just as Venturino was.  I have seen the reactions in here when someone come sin and start ridiculing NCOWS and they are no different than the reactions to Venturino's article about SASS.

Cammie,
you can read it here:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_184_30/ai_n16741476

[RRio]

But NCOWS is NCOWS and what does is it's own doing. But as a person who reads posts these as a basic outsider. There is a lot more reasons to stay away then to join. Numerous times I read post that alienate individuals or the "you need to remember this is NCOWS". It makes NCOWS look like a bunch of pompus jerks. Let them decide if it is for them, don't make their decision here.

KC
SASS 48970
NCOWS 1662

There is iron in your words....

[James Hunt]

Thank you for that statement Marshall Hollawy as an NCOWS member interested in holding the line on authenticity I take that as a compliment, and thank you for the forum to speak these views.

[Books OToole]

Rawhide;

Thanks for the link.  I just read the article and find it amazing that it caused so much vitriol.  But I guess that I shouldn't be suprised.  Most people who get stopped for speeding blame the cop.

What would Wyatt say if I told him that we could win the fight by missing the other guys real fast?

Books

[Irish Dave]

Thank you, Marshal H.
As James Hunt said, both for the comment and for the forum.
Your perspective is "dead on" as I see it.

[Sacramento Johnson]

Howdy NCOWS Pards!
I wouldn't worry about what some SASS shooters say about NCOWS; their goals and views are not your goals and views (heck, they're not mine, either!) Yes, NCOWS and SASS both involve shooting old west firearms, but after that they are two very different groups with very different goals, from what I've read in NCOWS's bylaws, and seen in SASS matches over the years.  Each has a niche they cater to, and there's room for both in the world of CAS.  As for Venturino's recent article, I understand his dissappointment (have some myself regarding SASS) and he sounds like he might like NCOWS, if he would be willing to put on some period authentic clothes.
Have you thought about contacting him?

Sacramento Johnson Sass #6873, wishing there was an NCOWS club locally, myself...

[Camille Eonich]

Rawhide;

Thanks for the link.  I just read the article and find it amazing that it caused so much vitriol.  


Books

Agree.  I thought that it was rather funny. 

[Matts BasterSon SASS 74843]

I am new to CAS, but not new to shooting. I am joining a SASS outfit. Why? A couple of reasons.

First, they are close. In fact, there are two different SASS groups within 10 miles of me. The closest NCOWS outfit is at least 600 miles away. Say what you want about appealing to the masses, you can't join if there's no one TO join.

Second, CAS is an opportunity to shoot, honor american tradition, and most importantly (to me), an opportunity to do them with my family. I am sure there are women in NCOWS, probably several couples, maybe even some families. But from what I've seen, SASS ACTIVELY encourages women and families - that "trying to be all things to all people" thing. To us, the appeal of SASS is that there is something in it for all of us. My wife and daughters are new to shooting, and while willing, are more than a little intimidated. I've shot everything from 9mm to 50 cal. It doesn't matter that my .38/.357 doesn't recoil, or belch black smoke. I've shot all the bucking .45 ACP and .357/.44 mag I care to. What matters is that my wife and daughters can stand right there with me, and as a family we can appreciate shooting, american heritage, and each other. They can learn the fundamentals, I can work on speed - oh, and save a ton on reloading costs for this "posse" of mine.

I'd like to have the luxury of being a purist. But it's more important that it be something we can (afford to) do together. I've spent too much time away to take up another interest that doesn't involve my family. I am grateful (and completely floored!) that this is something they have expressed an interest in!!

To me, in my short time in this "world", the biggest divide and lack of respect is between the powder types and calibers, not the organizations...not everyone in the old west shot .45LC. There were a lot of smaller calibers out there for a long time, and I think Wild Bill himself shot .36 out of his Navys...there really is room in CAS for more than one type of challenge, I think.

[O.T. Buchannan]

Matts, I am in total agreement with you, I feel where you are coming from.  NCOWS does in fact have family involvement...perhaps it's not 'advertised' as much, but it is part and parcel of what we do.  In addition, there are ways to get involved in NCOWS even if you are unable to regularly attend events.

As to the powder questions, I personally shoot blackpowder, but I am NOT against ANYONE who shoots smokeless, and I've never put them down that I'm aware of, or made them feel unwelcome.  As to the calibers, and the fact that Hickok was known to use .36 calibre Colt's Navies, I also know where you are coming from on that.  I have a pair of Navy Colt Conversions in .38 Long Colt, that I like, a LOT, and  they are legitimate fighting pistols of the day, in my opinion.  I also have an 1849 Pocket Colt in .31 calibre that is a lot of fun to shoot....

Anyway, your decisions are SOUND.....getting family involved is awesome!  I've done the same with my family, so once again, I know where you are coming from.  Even if you are not an NCOWS member, please feel very free to visit and post on our forum.

THANKS!

[Matts BasterSon SASS 74843]

Thank you, sir. I was a bit wary comin' in here, bein' new and unannointed and all...

Also, lemme make sure all y'all understand: I LIKE the ideals of NCOWS, I really do. I don't want/like to sound critical, especially of anyone in particular. Based on my very limited experience, there does seem to be a rift between BP/large caliber shooters and those that "play the game". I love the boom and flash of BP and big calibers, too. But I also like the challenge of speed. I'm no less a "shooter" with a .38sp than with a .45LC. I'm a danger to myself and others, either way! 

I think it's great that everyone really has the flexibility within CAS to do both, if they like. Today's anti-tank/holy black shooter can be tomorrow's speed demon, and vice versa, if they're so inclined.

Great country, this is! 

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy, Matts!

To you and your family - welcome!  I speak as both a Life member of SASS and a member for Life of NCOWS.  I prefer NCOWS because of the historical differences, but I wouldn't have known about NCOWS had I not been to several SASS matches attended by GW, Dutch and Irish Dave.  Had a ball wherever I went!

To tell on myself: when I first heard of NCOWS I thought that they were talking about COWS, an old west clothing supplier!   

[Matts BasterSon SASS 74843]

Thank you, sir. I feel lke I'm surrounded by comrades in arms - figuratively and literally!

[Cuts Crooked]

Minor chuckle here: Looks like Mike was poking at both sides, which a lot seem to have missed, because he makes a sly comment about costumes too.

Be that as it may, I strongly suspect the "gamer attitude" is coming to NCOWS again soon. (please note that I put those words in quotes) It has been here b'fore in the form of short stroke kits and it will be here/is here in the form of ultra light loads. Anyone who thinks otherwise is welcome to take up the topic again in two years. I got money I want to put down with them! Figger if yer sure I'm wrong you'll give me odds, right?

Well, mayhap it's time to consider major/minor power factor catagories? Say a 150 PF as the break point, which will keep the plethera of .38 shooters in the majors if they load  for it. This will allow for those who want to "shoot your own game" and for those who want to "do it like it was intended" to both have what they want. This might be considerred a trial balloon..............

(power factor m X v / 1000= PF )

[Books OToole]

he makes a sly comment about costumes too.
(power factor m X v / 1000= PF )

Cuts;

I noticed that too.  He made more than one comment about "costumes."  They weren't hateful but they weren't complimentary either.

If he wants to shoot warthog loads and wear Levi's, more power to him.

Wyatt and I will dress more traditionally... and shoot warthog loads.

Books

[Delmonico]

Why Cuts, why would you think someone who writes for money would sorta ride the fence?  (No offense to Mike, he's one of the few I still read "when" I chose to buy a gun rag.)  Might have to click on the link and read it later.

[Camille Eonich]

Go ahead and read it Del.  I thought it was funny for the most part.  For those in the know about CAS they will realize that Venturino probably hasn't been to a cowboy action shoot in a long time.  The problem, and here's where it's not funny, is that those who have never been to one will get some negative ideas about them.