Question on Hip Shootin'

[Tensleep]

What size shot do you have?
Cut open a couple of those rounds that you bought and use what you have.
Why make it complicated?

[The Arapaho Kid]

It's done!  6 1/2 ounces of #8 shot in the butt stock.  The hole is not totally full.  I left about an inch for movement.  I don't understand how this tiny bit of weight can effect the recoil, or is it the movement of the shot in the hole that effects it?

Bear with me guys!  I'm far from being an expert on this technical stuff.  Someone asked me if I had a choke on my shotgun.  I don't even know what a choke is, or it's purpose, or do want, or not want one?  Up until I came into CAS...all I knew about guns was...you put bullets in them and they make a noise when you pull the trigger!  I didn't know squat about the technical end of them....but I'm learning now!

[El Peludo]

Kid, the choke is the amount of restriction in the business end of the barrel on a shotgun.  Choke controls the pattern tightness and distance of effectiveness of the shot load.  On your Baikal, you might have screw in chokes, or maybe not.  Break the gun down - take the barrels off of the frame, (a safety measure, for sure) and look at the muzzles.  If there is a sleeve sort of device in there with two slots in it, that is a removable choke.  If this is the case, you should have gotten a choke removal tool with your gun , and perhaps an extra choke tube, as well.  The tool is just a flat piece of steel about one eighth of an inch thick, shaped in a T.  It fits into the slots in the choke tube, and they can be unscrewed from the barrels.  The tubes are marked - IC for improved cylinder, M for modified, F for full.  The amount of restriction is designated by those letters: full choke is the tightest, then modified, improved, and finally cylinder(designated C), which is a straight tube with no restriction.  Most doubles with fixed chokes, are M - IC, which are good all around chokes for short range use.  There is much more to it, but this is the nuts of it, basically.  As an aside, when you go to the next shoot, ask somebody there if they can help you sort this mess out; one of the more experienced shooters should be able to help you out.

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[Laredo Crockett]

Kid, reducing to load, increasing gun weight and a good recoil pad will all help. 1 ounce loads, loaded ti minimum velocity recoil far less than 1 1/8 ounce loads. Y ou can even load 7/8 ounce in a 12 gauge though I don't know whether they will knock down targets or not-they have almost no recoil if loaded to minimum velocity.

You'r right. Not likely that 4 ounces of weight is gonna help much. I second the suggestion for a Mercury Recoil unit in the buttstock.

A really good buttpad will h elp immensely. I use a Pachymr decelerator on my skeet and trap guns and they work great. I have seen posted that there are now pads out that are better, but i have no experience with them.

Careful when shooting from the h ip that you get a real firm grip on on the wrist of the stock to prevent getting the web of your hand split under recoil by the top lever.

With a little practice  you can hit sass targets from the hip as well as from the shoulder.

[Tensleep]

7/8 oz took down all the KDs at Mason Dixon Stampede the last two years.

[Laredo Crockett]

Tensleep, thanks for the info. They break skeet targets also. the pattern appears to be a mite scarcer than 1 oz, but they still break the targets which is good enough-and the recoil is LIGHT.

[Delmonico]

I've killed a few hundred pheasants with 7/8 oz in a skeet choked 28 gauge out to about 40 yards and never felt under gunned.  Folks tell me them things is hard ta kill, never seem to have noticed.  Course 7/8 oz in a 5 1/4 pound gun has a bit of recoil.   Bet it would take a nasty knockdown to stop it.

[Four-Eyed Buck]

The 7/8ths I'm putting together for the wife and I don't seem to have any problems locally with the KD's we've encountered..............Buck

[The Arapaho Kid]

Kid, the choke is the amount of restriction in the business end of the barrel on a shotgun.  Choke controls the pattern tightness and distance of effectiveness of the shot load.  On your Baikal, you might have screw in chokes, or maybe not.  Break the gun down - take the barrels off of the frame, (a safety measure, for sure) and look at the muzzles.  If there is a sleeve sort of device in there with two slots in it, that is a removable choke.  If this is the case, you should have gotten a choke removal tool with your gun , and perhaps an extra choke tube, as well.  The tool is just a flat piece of steel about one eighth of an inch thick, shaped in a T.  It fits into the slots in the choke tube, and they can be unscrewed from the barrels.  The tubes are marked - IC for improved cylinder, M for modified, F for full.  The amount of restriction is designated by those letters: full choke is the tightest, then modified, improved, and finally cylinder(designated C), which is a straight tube with no restriction.  Most doubles with fixed chokes, are M - IC, which are good all around chokes for short range use.  There is much more to it, but this is the nuts of it, basically.  As an aside, when you go to the next shoot, ask somebody there if they can help you sort this mess out; one of the more experienced shooters should be able to help you out.

I checked my scattergun.  The barrels are smooth from the chambers to the front end.  No choke.

[Four-Eyed Buck]

That means it has the choke incorporated into the taper of the barrel. If you have owners manual, see if the choke tapers are listed. i know most of the Stoegers are left mod. and right IC. my 1878 TTN says it's choked Cyl., but actually it's somewhat tighter. smith's usually have gauges that can measure what the choke taper is. Hope I didn't confuse you........Buck

[Marshal Will Wingam]

If you go changing shotguns, here's a little input. I ordered two Stoeger Uplander supremes, one for me and one for my wife. One came in and I tried it out. It shot both barrels most of the time. I reworked the action, but only got it to work right about 90% of the time. That means that tvery tenth shot it fired both barrels when I pulled the trigger. I cancelled the order for the other one. That one went into the safe until I could figure out what to do about it. Then I ordered two Stoeger coach guns. Neither one shot straight. On both guns the right barrel hit about 4 inches to the right and the left barrel hit 6 inches high and 6 inches to the left at about 15 feet. I sent them back to Stoeger to get fixed. After a couple months Stoeger replaced both guns. One, my wife's replacement, shot just fine. The other one was off exactly the same as the other two. I sold that lemon and went back to the Uplander. My cousin and I shot the hell out of it one day. I'd shoot a box of shells as fast as I could and hand it to him. He would do the same thing and hand it back. It got so hot we needed a glove on the left hand to handle it. After it cooled, it stopped shooting both barrels at the same time. Mostly. It still bangs off both about once every six months, but at least it hits where it should, unlike the other ones. Would I order another Stoeger? I don't think so.

[Tensleep]

We have a Stoeger Uplander, 26" barrels in 20ga.
With AA Featherlights it will still jolt the #$%@ outta ya.
It shoots straight but it kicks more than my 20" Jing 12ga hammered double.

AK check the muzzle with a dime to see if the dime will slide in the barrel, if it don't that thing is full choked.
The Stoeger we have has the barels marked on the underside.
Left is M and right is IC.
That damned 20ga stays in the safe now.

[The Arapaho Kid]

We have a Stoeger Uplander, 26" barrels in 20ga.
With AA Featherlights it will still jolt the #$%@ outta ya.
It shoots straight but it kicks more than my 20" Jing 12ga hammered double.

AK check the muzzle with a dime to see if the dime will slide in the barrel, if it don't that thing is full choked.
The Stoeger we have has the barels marked on the underside.
Left is M and right is IC.
That damned 20ga stays in the safe now.

Sleep:  Did a check on my scattergun.  No Chokes.

[Cuts Crooked]

Kid, What kind of recoil shield have you got fer yer shoulder? The best I know of is the PAST shield! A freind of mine had that nasty rotator cup surgery on her shoulder last year and I recommended it to her. She swears by it now!!!!!

Yes, adding a few oz to the gun will make a major difference, even though it seems like it ain't much weight, it has disproportionant affect. Other things to check into are stock fit. If that stock is wrong fer ya, nuthin will make it feel good! Go to a good smith who understands scattergunning and have him check you & the gun for proper fit....making sure he understands that you are shooting CAS, not trap. (makes a difference because you hold the gun different for shooting ground targets) The slip on recoil pads are pretty good too. I have one on my scattergun, because it didn't fit me right without it. I covered it with a soft leather wrap that actually looks period correct. But they make them now with a leather cover already part of them. (don't look right to me, but they work)

And if all else fails you might try going to black powder loads in the scatter gun! BP recoil is different than smokeles, spread out over a longer time period. Yeha, I know...they SOUND like cannons goings off, but a light BP load is easier on the shoulder than the lightest smokeless load. And they LOOK COOL!

Good luck with it pard! No one should be bringing bruises home from a CAS match!

[The Arapaho Kid]

Cuts:  My shoulder worn recoil pad is a canvas/leather device and contains a pad of high density foam rubber that is about a half inch thick.  I don't remember where I got it...on the net somewhere?  I am also going to get one of those slip on rubber recoil pads to add to the butt stock of my scattergun.  I have added several ounces of #8 shot into the butt stock and I have a couple boxes of BP shot shells, so I think I can control the recoil to a certain degree now.  If this doesn't tame that reoil I'll look into getting one of those mercury recoil supressors installed.  I don't want to have to get another scattergun.  If all these efforts fail...I'll start hip shootin'

[Four-Eyed Buck]

The two Stoegers we have are both Uplanders, one has 26" tubes and the other has 28" tubes. The 26 is choked left mod., right IC.. The 28 is choked right Mod., left full. Both have been pretty reliable, no doublin'. The 26 has been fitted for Susie, almost three inches off the stock and a Kick-ezz recoil pad installed. It isn't too good for me to shoot as my thumb is just about up my nose when I hold it! both of them have their barrels regulated pretty well. I've shot some trap with the 28. 10Zzzz mentioned a Jing, if it's anything like the one I held at a gun show, it does have some heft to it for a coach gun. The same goes for my 1878 TTN, it feels a lot heavier than my 28 Stoeger. I don't know if the Baikal's have long forcing cones or not, but that's something that could be done to somewhat help with the recoil. I know the TTN's have longer cones. If I get the chance, I'll check EAA's site and see if they list the choking on their fixed choke coach guns.......................Buck

[Sheriff A.E. Moses]

The Arapaho Kid
I had that same shotgun and that rascal beat around me like a high school bully. I tried all of the things suggested on this wire and nothing worked. I then traded it for a TTN 1878 Colt Replica and I have to admit it is a pleasure to shoot that TTN. There is basically zero recoil compared to that Bakail. The spent shells drop off with ease, best money I ever spent on a shotgun. The Bakail would rack the middle finger of my shooting hand and the swelling would just about go down, when it was time to shoot again. I dreaded that darned thing. It did look good, but not as good as a TTN with those overgrown hammers. Good Luck!