What is the GAF?

[Books OToole]

I must now appear to waffle, but I am not really.  Whereas the Victorian Era is 1837-1901, I believe that the focus of GAF should be the late Vitorian era, say 1865-1901.  (With side matches that reflect the earlier muzzle-loading era.)

Since there are many venues for American Civil War, and CAS, I believe we should stake out a terriory that has not already been claimed.  And boldly go where no organization has gone. 

To that end, we should charge down the path that was scouted by Sgt. Dry dock.  In our Musters/Matches we should use the weapons of the era that were used by the military.  There is something inately wrong with using a lever action rifle/carbine while wearning an Indian wars era U.S. uniform.  [Other countires issued Winchesters, and that would be really neat to research and wear their uniform.]

As the General said, we can't be all things to all people.  If you want to shoot a lever gun and carry multiple pistols, that's fine.  There is already an organization that caters to you.  You can even put crossed sabers on you cowboy hat and call yourself Col. Cord McNally, and be applauded for it.

There is no need for another organization that shoots lever guns with minimal authenticity required.

Respectfully;

Books Tatham

[Proud member of The Company of Military Historians, The Frontier Army Living History Association and NCOWS.  All of them fine organizations that are not trying to be all things to all people.]

[RattlesnakeJack]

Just weighing in here with a comment on two distinct timeframes which had become somewhat blurred in my own mind, until I rechecked them, and thus it occurs to me that they may be simiilalry confusing this discussion a mite ...

The stated GAF timeframe is, indeed, 1858-1902 ... and that should certainly apply to all GAF-related activities, unless altered ...

On the other hand, to the best of my knowledge GAF shooting events (i.e. the Musters) have so far been conducted under NCOWS rules (although I don't think there is an established "rule" to that effect) ... and their bylaws specify an 1865-1899 timeframe for acceptable firearms ....

Not much of a difference, but it certainly does highlight the "ACW element" of the discussion!   

Thus, one necessary aspect of ongoing consideration of GAF's future may be to decide whether there should be a move toward "standardizing" on a single suitable timeframe .... 

[Major Matt Lewis]

I am personally against narrowing down the time frame from the 1858 thru 1902.  In all honesty, it doesn't matter.  We seem to have an abundance of member who "want" but  very few who are willing to "do."  A timeframe to adhere to is only important if there are GAF matches.  The last time I checked, the people who were willing to go through the effort of building a GAF match were few...So, a timeframe of when the GAF period is becomes nonfactor now doesn't it. 

Gabe,

Your non-posting members with ''concerns'' are noted.  I also caught the comment about the dreaded short stroked rifle...I don't know if you were refering to mine, but the Current NCOWS judge, Trap has approved my rifle for NCOWS usage twice before.  once again I don't know if you were referring to me with the loads, but I was shooting factory Ultramax loads.  I prefer and endorse the 158 grain loads.  So please put your nonposting amigo's poor mind to rest.   

As to the Main Battle Rifle catagory....as well as the next GAF Muster...I say cool.  Somebody build a match and if I am free I may come. 

[Advertising]

[US Scout]

To all-

Some good comments being exchanged here - and I'm glad to see that it is being done in a civil manner. 

GAF does indeed go from 1858-1902.  I've considered expanding it a bit so that we can get Pershing's Expedition down to Mexico into our time frame (though the Queen was no longer with us), which would be a great way to justify having "Wild Bunch" style matches and/or scenarios.  But that is only in the "thought of the day" phase right now.

With regard to CW-stages at the GAF Muster.  In the past, we've had stages that not only did the CW, but IW, one of the Zulu Wars, the SAW, and various other scenarios.  We've shot them with what we had brought - be they percussion, early cartridge conversions, Colts, Remingtons, S&W and Webleys, and perhaps some others.  We had Winchesters, Marlins, and Spencers shooting alongside Martini-Henrys.  My point being that the theme of the Muster isn't really all that critical in the long run - it provides some basis for the scenarios, and makes for a little history learning and a lot of fun to shoot. 

As for the next Muster, I've been told that it may have another CW theme this year, same as last year.  My suggestion is that it be focused on the Trans-Mississippi West and go up to about 1866 or 1867, since there were still volunteer regiments stationed on the Frontier fighting Indians.  It might even encourage a raid on Lawrence stage. 

I would also like to point out that, to my knowledge, there are no CW-groups that shoot a CAS-style match.  NSSA skirmishes are totally different from NCOWS and SASS Matches, and the GAF Muster as well.  Reenactors don't shoot matches, and they certainly don't shoot real bullets at targets. 

Consequently, the GAF Muster is unique.  The Muster has its foundation in CAS-style matches, but we have moved away from it by using only a pistol and rifle with multiple reloads.  As we begin to phase in the use of the Battle Rifle concept, the Musters will become even more distinct from shoots sponsored by NCOWS, SASS and NSSA. 

For the time being, we are forced to use range facilities offered by NCOWS or SASS clubs - thus we have to follow their rules with regard to safety and allowable firearms.  This isn't a major problem since we are still very much in the developmental stage, and the clubs have been very generous and flexible with regard to our needs, but as we begin to develop our own concept of a shooting match (such as a Muster in which only military-style firearms are allowed), we will be placed into a situation where we need to provide our own home range(s), and insurance to cover the matches held there. 

Insurance costs money and last time I checked with the paymaster, our war chest was empty, which complicates the matter considerably. 

US Scout
GAF, Commanding

[Ol Gabe]

Good comments above, they all indicate there is a need for further discussion. Thank you US Scout for your insightful and positive post, your efforts do not go unnoticed.
M.M., to clarify, no, I was not referring to anything you were using, my observations were from an overall visual standpoint only. With the firearm cycling speed/rate of well-seasoned Shooters it oft-times gives the impression that something may have been altered to meet a 'need for speed', this is what was perceived.
Some loads seen going downrange were slow enough to actually see the bullet, decide on your own if that falls into a Mouse Fart category, I only commented on what I observed and heard next to the Firing Line.
I hope this has helped to clear up any misconceptions I may have created as I certainly did not intend that.
I remain, etc.
'Ol Gabe

[Major Matt Lewis]

Actually Gabe it does help.  Thank you.  I like winning, but am not willing to do anything that will put an * by my name.  So, I do tend to get wrapped up because it is a question of honor with me.

[Mustang Gregg]

Why do I like the GAF??  IMHO
Reckon it was 'cause General Missouri Scotsman (the founder) is a good friend of mine & he got me REAL interested in dressin' as a Rough Rider while SASS shootin'. 
I also like the
(1) shootin' in uniform,
(2) GAF colorguards,
(3) meetin' other GAF troops
(4) postal matches,
(5) recruitin',
(6) banquets,
(7) etc.
I especially like the part of a FREE-no-cost-membership.

I work in a military structured position as my career. 
So I like the loosely structred GAF system on my off-duty hours.
I don't think we need to get very much more structured.  Again IMHO.

Mustang Gregg, Bvt Ltc,
Commander, Div of NE,
Dept of the Missouri
Who was also a Flag-carryin' member of the FIRST GAF Muster **

**The ORIGINAL GAF Color Guard detail: 
NE:  Gen Missouri Scotsman
NE:  Ltc Mustang Gregg
CO:  Sgt Trailrider
MT:  Sgt Hardtack Henry
WY:  Sgt Chicago Kid aka Wretched Excess

 

[Guns Garrett]

For an un-reviewed, off-the-cuff posting I made yesterday, I must say I am somewhat abashed by the favorable responses I saw posted.  Thanks - I was unsure as to how I'd be taken. A few of you have brought up points that I had forgotten, or was mistaken about.

True, the period portrayed by the members of GAF, according to the standards posted on the GAF website, are post-ACW era, and I do believe it was to both enhance awareness of the "transitional" period, and to capitalize on the use of repeating, cartridge-firing firearms to compete in Western Action Shooting matches.  I believe at the time the 2006 Muster was announced to be ACW-themed, a few comments were made about it being "outside" the time era.  The variation was justified by being "something different" and "just this once", and we would shoot standard CAS firearms.  As it was, as enjoyable as the 2006 Muster was, very few of the scenarios were ACW-themed, and only about half the shooters were in ACW uniforms.  We had Maj Matt in SAW attire, a few Scouts, and at least one teamster, and two ladies (I'm only counting the shooters).  Next year's Muster is again supposed to be ACW-themed but it was stated that the scenarios would be based on the battles, but not necessarily any requirement for your attire.  I did not feel that Rattlesnake Jack was out of place with his Highlander garb at a "SAW-themed" Muster in 2005.  If one wants to dress the part to fit the theme of the Muster, go for it.  If you want to portray a different branch/timeframe/service/nationality each day of the match, and again for the banquet - great! Keep us guessing - what will he show up as next? Bengal Lancer? Boer? Apache?  As long as our personna fits within our time period, it wouldn't matter if we themed our Muster scenarios on the Battle of Hastings. (Last Stage - At the buzzer, draw your pistol, loaded with one round, and shoot King Harold [farthest target] in the eye. No time limit - 30 second bonus for hit)    Just kidding.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the Muster, to me, is more of a pageant of military history and uniforms, rather than a pure re-enactment of a certain battle or battles.  The romance, variety, and splendor of that age is what makes it so attractive, and our common interest and sharing with each other is what bonds us, as well.

If, as the GAF grows, it comes to the point where it can be a stand-alone, separate organization such as NCOWS or SASS, I agree it will require that there be formal rules, bylaws and/or restrictions for equipment, firearms, classifications, etc.  That is what makes it "organized". I'd love to see that.  These type of ideas can be suggested/attempted at our Musters for consideration, such as Sgt Drydock's Battle Rifle trial. 

If I may be so bold as to make one suggestion, for an initial attempt at this, is to add an additional class for Muster registration, along the same lines as the NCOWS' "Originals" class - call it "Old Guard" or something.  Uniform-firearms-persona must all be reconcilled and be in period (that unit used those weapons at that time), documentation preferred (or required), ammunition (for pistol, at least) must be BP military-equivalent (unless documented).  Member must camp on-site in period correct encampment with proper equipment and shelter.  Members MAY share bivouac/set-up, as many have done in the past - you may not have to sleep there, just have the set-up during the course of the Muster.  Shooting awards would be within class, plus eligible for Overall Match Winner ("Iron Trooper")  I feel it would be appropriate, due to their extra dedication and work, for there to be an award for their authenticity, as well.  Those that want the authenticity will have the opportunity to shine, those that are more interested in the "social" aspect of the GAF can still participate, learn, and possibly aspire to move up to that class. 
I've said much more than my $.02 worth.  I originally intended to stop at the end of the second sentence of the first paragraph!

Semper Fidelis,
Guns

[Dr. Bob]

GG,

COOL!!!  I really like that idea.  If I could only afford the Swiss 10.4 mm revolver listed on GunsAmerica, I would be set!!   It's a mere $2,395 or so.   Guess I just need a Spencer to go with my SAA. Oh yes, and a Sgt. of Cav. uniform and I would be set.  The camp is no problem.

Thanks for sharing the idea!!

YMH&OS

Capt. R. H. Dorian
Brv't. LtC, Chief Topographical Engineer
Grand Army of the Frontier

[US Scout]

Guns,

Some good suggestions.

I would like to see the Muster develop into a unique shooting event, with its own categories, firearms, etc.  We're moving in that direction. We may not reach it this year, or next, as we'll need to test our ideas with some trial and error methodology, but we are developing our own distinct identity separate from SASS and NCOWS.

In fact, I'd like to see us develop our own categories.  I'm thinking we might want to base it on rifles vice pistols like SASS and NCOWS, particularly as rifles (to include carbines) was primary over the pistol as the standard arm. 

I like your "Old Guard" suggestion.  it'd be something for the "hard core" among us to work on and be recognized for their efforts, yet those os us who don't feel so inclined are not excluded from what they enjoy. 

Sgt Drydock came up with the Battle Rifle concept (or at least took it to the experimental level to see if the concept was feasible).  This is another positive move forward, once we work out the details.

Major Matt came up with the idea of using medals for winners of their respective categories.  I like that, too. 

US Scout
GAF, Commanding

[Books OToole]

General & and all GAF;

I had a conversation with the Kansas Division Commander last night and the Missouri Division Commander today.  We are working on side matches for the KVC 2-gun regional that will reflect the classes that I proposed earlier.   One will be a battle rifle stage (Inf/Cav enlisted) and one will be an officers stage (handgun only with multiple reloads).  When they are finalized I will make the appropriate posting.

Michael "Books" Tatham
Capt. 5th Kansas Battery
Acting Arty. Commander, Dept. of Missouri

[Major Matt Lewis]

You know, these are all excellent ideas and if GAF wanted to really pursue Frontier Military Action Shooting in it's fullest, who is willing to step up and "DO" something about it.  Who is willing to make it a priority, to build the matches, to sit down and plan out the catagory and come up with the requirements for the catagory.  Sitting around all day and coming up with excellent ideas is great, but who is willing to step up to where the rubber hits the road and make it happen? 

Dr. Bob? Ol' Gabe? Guns? Drydock? Scout? Books? Someone...Anyone?


If nobody is willing to step up and make happen, than all the pontificating and blowviating that is done is done just for the sake of doing it.  What is the value of offering up opinions if you are not prepared to see them through?  Why critisize those that are willing to create a product when you have no intension of producing one yourself?  In short, put up or well...you know. 

So, that said, who's going to step up and run the 2007 Muster? 

[Dr. Bob]

MM,

I am confused here.  Seems that if has been posted elsewhere here in the Barracks that the 2007 Muster will be in Ackley, IA on the weekend of 9/1707.  Has that changed?? 

I don't know enough about wars during the period of GAF [1858 -1902] to write stages.  My health limits me taking on all that is involved in running a muster by myself.  Will help anyone in the KC area who will.

I have no solution for growing GAF.  I feel that this discussion has brought a lot of good ideas for consideration.  We will see what transpires.

YMH&O

Capt. R. H. Dorian
Brv't. LtC., Chief Topographical Engineer 
Grand Army of the Frontier

[Major Matt Lewis]

Bob,

You are correct and the plan was for me to run it.  But I am now convinced that I am not the person for the job now.  This is your opportunity to take a brave step forward and put a product out there.  You have ill health, I have a career and three young children, Scout has bad plumbing....we all have something.  My company doesn't pay me to sit around all day and thing about shooting, man it would be great if they did I to be 36 in a couple of weeks.  I do have more important mountains to climb right now in my life.

The wife get's testy if I don't pay any attention to her.  It's nice if the kids recognize me and I am not just the "guy who lives here."  SO, we all have reasons....we all have excuses.  There have been a few who has stepped up.  I don't need to name them as we all know who they are...."We happy few" who have stepped up to attempt to make this organization function and have meaning...

Let's take for example...oh, say....The Star of Merit....Lord knows, when Scout posted them, everybody posted about how they deserved one, or in many cases, multiples.  Has anyone stepped up to volunteer to help administer awards?  Or did they just think "it will work itself out?"  Of course, that has probably been replaced now by "Hmmmm....Wonder why I haven't got my Star of Merit yet?" 

One poster asked me way back what I thought it meant for GAF to be relevant, I am now prepared to answer....I think that in order to be relevant, we need multiple people to be willing to stand up and make GAF mean something....and that may include processing Stars of Merit requests, Building the GAF Muster, Running the GAF Website....or whatever....

[River City John]

I don't think the venue has changed for the 2007 Muster.

I gather what the Major is really asking is to help ourselves to an extra big cup of STFU.

I believe I would be good for a couple of stage scenarios.
(One of the reasons behind my search for the baby rolling block is I'm reading about the 1871 Korean war. The U.S. Navy landing party used Remington carbines in .50-45 , and the uniforms had not changed much, if any, from CW days.)

I'm sure regardless of which theme the scenarios are written for, people attending are going to wear the uniform of whichever unit interests them and likely use the weapons they're comfortable with from past shoots. The hosting posse providing the insurance is an NCOWS posse, chances are NCOWS rules will apply.

Let me know if I could contribute a couple of scenarios.
(Tactics in the 19th century really hadn't changed all that much from Napoleonic days, Dr. Bob.)  
RCJ

[Major Matt Lewis]

I gather what the Major is really asking is to help ourselves to an extra big cup of STFU.

I believe I would be good for a couple of stage scenarios.
(One of the reasons behind my search for the baby rolling block is I'm reading about the 1871 Korean war. The U.S. Navy landing party used Remington carbines, and the uniforms had not changed much at all from CW days.)

I'm sure regardless of which theme the scenarios are written for, people attending are going to wear the uniform of whichever unit interests them and likely use the weapons they're comfortable with from past shoots. The hosting posse providing the insurance is an NCOWS posse, chances are NCOWS rules will apply.

Let me know if I could contribute a couple of scenarios.
(Tactics in the 19th century really hadn't changed all that much from Napoleonic days, Dr. Bob.)  
RCJ

John,

You are right if the S is for Stand and not Shut.....

The Marines did do some nice house cleaning in Korea back in 71 didn't they.....Very good.  Not a lot of people know about that one.

[Drydock]

I have done R&D in the past and will continue to do so.  If there were a suitable venue in my geographical area I would love to put together a Muster.  As there is not I would be willing to do anything, mailings, stage writing, weapons research, or anything else requested by the command staff that is within my capability.

Let us not overthink this.  We have a venue in Iowa willing to host us.  Let us determine a date to maximise participation.  Assemble commitments here on line, folks who can come a day early and set up. I'll do it! Determine the weapons and rules to be used.  The Iowa range has on site cooking facilities and willing workers.  The mess hall makes a fine dance floor, no need to set up reservations anywhere. 

Lets have a fine get together, as many of us as possible.  A muster indeed, to shoot and talk and plot our course.  Remember the Kansas stages were really very simple, mostly imagination, and good folks to share time with.  GAF is weapons and uniforms, true, but its really about like minded camraderie.

[Major Matt Lewis]

That's the Spirit....A few more volunteer and we have something....By the way, we can count The Bristow Kid in as a Volunteer.....


Now, who's willing to volunteer to be the Awards Officer?

[Dr. Bob]

Sgt. Drydock,

Well said!

[Sagebrush Burns]

I would be pleased to contribute a stage (or a two-man team side match) based on the fight at Milk Creek in NW Colorado.  Let me know.