Update on Cimarron 2nd Model Richards and other conversion stuff

[Abilene]

Howdy.  I went with Robert from Cimarron to work at Mule Camp.  I found out a few things about the upcoming Richards conversion that should interest those who are contemplating one.  First of all, the caliber.  Their website only lists 45LC.  Since they previously scrapped plans to chamber the OT in 45LC due to the thin chamber walls, I was curious why this was the only caliber listed on the website.  I was told that the cylinder is beefed up (larger), also the arbor pin, to handle the higher pressures.  (This means that the frame, cylinder, and barrel will not be interchangeable with Richards-Mason parts).  Also, there is a new product flyer listing all the upcoming products, and it lists 38 Spcl, 44 Colt, and 44 Spcl in addition to the 45LC that is on the website.  Projected availability is still September (Uberti is supposed to ship before they take off August for vacation).

Oh yeah, one other thing.  Uberti made a "mistake" and made some mongrel guns.  They are Richards-Mason "Army" conversions in 38 Spcl.  They have Army grips, frame and cylinder appear to be regular '51 R-M parts (not rebated cylinder and stepped frame of the '60), and it has a round 8" barrel.  I think they got 40 or so of these guns.  So if someone wants a 38 Spcl conversion but wants the Army grip, or if you just want something "different", you might consider this one.

And finally, Ron Snover "The Ottway Smith" showed me the Richards conversion ring (rear sight and firing pin as part of the ring) that he had made for a '51 Richards-Mason.  It looked sharp!  Contact Ron for more info.

Just FYI.

[Fox Creek Kid]

The chambering perplexes me nonetheless  as why they would even chamber the 2nd Model Richards in .45 Colt as it's definitely a traditionalist pistol. Why would they spend the money to tool up to make larger parts(?). Uberti already has exisiting tooling and I find it hard to believe that they would tool up for something so similar yet so different.  From an engineering perspective as well as financial that's stupid. Why the hell not chamber it in .44 Colt and .38 if someone wants that caliber(?).  Uberti has never let me down before, I hope they don't drop the ball on this one. 

[Pappy Hayes]

I was notified today that the Type II Richard's would be avaliable in the calibers mentioned by Abilene. My gun dealer also said they should be available around the end of July first of August. I was sure glad they are making it available in the 44Colt especially since the cyliinder was larger. I was going to order one even though it would have been 45lc and just order a RM cyliner in 44. It did not make since to me either they would make it in 45lc only or at all. I would have thought they could use the RM frame, cylinder, conversion ring and just have to make the new barrel. I thought all companies were in the mode of saving money where possible. I know my company is. Anyway I am relieved they are offering the 44 since that is what I shoot.

[Advertising]

[Jrw8214]

How much larger will the new Richards conversion be compared to the 1860 Army's and RM Conversion Army's? Will this affect the gun's balance and weight?

[Jrw8214]

i was also wondering if since its gonna be available in .44 special, if i can load it with .44-40s? Basically what i want to do is have one of the new nickel Schofields as my main gun, a new Richards conversion as my second gun, and a '66 Yellowboy. And i'd like to load them all with .44-40. Could this be done?

Thanks,
Jacob

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Nope, won't work with 44-40's. The 44WCF is slightly tapered( not quite a true bottle neck), while the .44Colt and .44 Spec. are straight walled..........Buck

[Jrw8214]

dang. guess ill just have to carry extra ammo then. might aswell get it in .44 colt then so it'd atleast be historically accurate.

[Abilene]

JRW,
Some folks in the past have pondered on converting an Opentop or Richards-Mason to 44wcf, by rechambering a cylinder.  But a 38 spcl opentop cylinder doesn't have enough meat to it, and the bolt notches are too deep so it wouldn't work.  And in the 1860 conversions, 38 spcl was not offered.  But in the new type II Richards, 38 spcl is going to be offered.  So if the 38 cylinder has the same outside dimensions as the 44/45 cylinders which are supposed to be larger than the Richards-Mason cylinders, then you **might** be able to order an extra 38 cylinder and have it rechambered to 44 wcf and use it in a 44 Colt/Special Richards with the .429 bore barrel.  If it can be done, I'm sure some folks will be trying it.  Please note that this will void your warranty  . Good luck.

[Jrw8214]

i actually thought about that for a bit. how could i go about having the cylinder rechambered?

[Abilene]

You'd have to send it to a gunsmith who does such things.  I know there are some top names out there who do it, just can't think of who right now, but I'm sure that if/when the time comes, you can get recommendations.

[Jrw8214]

ive also been considering, just incase that doesnt work, if i could load my .44-40 schofield that i plan on getting with either of the .44 colt/.44 special ammo that would be used for the new richards conversion. Would either of those fit into a cylinder chambered for .44-40?

[Major 2]

44-40 is stepped case (necked) Cartridge

44 colt & 44 Special are stright cases

So no afraid not

[rifle]

Wouldn't historically accurate 44 Colt cartridges be loaded with the heel bullet that is the diameter of the case? To shoot into a 45cal. barrel? There are smiths that would make the cylinder(fire 44colt with the heel bullet) to fit the 45Colt revolver.I know where modified Lee factory crimp dies and lube dies can be had to load the heel bullets. Mould for the bullet too. Out side lubricated bullet.

[Long Johns Wolf]

When visiting the Uberti factory last week I had the chance to take a close look at the .44 Colt version which is a R+M grip/frame with a Richards barrel assembly. So, the gun exists and we should have it at our dealers pretty soon. Neat job the Uberti team did, the gun got a nice action & superb finish. It's a pitty they didn't let me take the piece home to Germany.
Hope they come up with a Richards I soon and I will gladly sell off my ASM.
Also played with their M 76 at that occasion: sweet action, compares nicely with the Chapperal rifle.
Bootsie

[Fox Creek Kid]

...I had the chance to take a close look at the .44 Colt version...

Wirklich? Das hab' Ich nich gedacht!  Bootsie, are you sure it was a .44 Colt and not a .45 Colt? After all you were probably on vacation and had a few beers in you and were rubbernecking those good lookin' Italian women.    Bestätig heißt bestätig! 

[Long Johns Wolf]

Yes, 44. Colt (BH specs) and not .45 Colt. It even got the correct cylinder engraving and not the plain jane rebated cylinder of the Cimarron ad which is supposedly the .45 Colt Version.
Bootsie

[Major 2]

wow ... that's weird... the 44 crowd with be ecstatic...

the test gun written by Dennis Adler
 in "Guns of the Old West" is both a engraved with the Cyl. scene and 45 Caliber. Also I think,  if you look close so is the photo of Ad gun at Cimmaron.

They may have decided to produce some, because of the feed back during these long months of development.

[Long Johns Wolf]

For those interested I will gladly mail a photograph of the Uberti/Colt Army Richards 2 Conversion in .44 Colt, S/N X04444 (and of the Remington Army 1858 Conversion in .45 Colt). The S/N of this Richards 2 replica seems to be interesting since I have an Uberti OT S/N  X04844 which was produced in 2003 already. The picture was taken Sept. 11, 2006 at the Gardone factory, thanks to Suzanne Webb and Giacomo Merlino of Uberti.
For the records: the visit to/of Uberti was a birthday present of my wife. She is sharing some of my interest but more importantly is offsetting most of my weaknesses.
Bootsie

[Major 2]

ME TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ! 

Thanks Bootsie

[jake1964]

I was in Fredricksburg this past week. I stopped in at Texas Jacks. They told me it looked like it would be after the first of the year before Uberti would be shipping any of these guns to Cimarron.