Is SASS fading? If so, why?

[Big Hext Finnigan]

What do y'all think?
Too rigid or too flexible?
Focused on money or just trying to survive?

From your seat, what's the "State of SASS?"

Adios,
Hext

[Will Ketchum]

For me it's not fading.  In general I believe it has become somewhat diluted.  With so many new members sometimes us vets forget the enthusiasm we had when we came to this sport.

Will Ketchum

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Yeah, I hear ya, but I don't see the kind of commitment to the spirit that I used to.. and I've only been doing this for three years. 

I like SASS as a vehicle for standardization, but I believe they have lost out on the flow of information and how long it takes for local clubs to get the new stuff.  Like a herd strung out too long on the trail, with leaders pushing hard, a stampede is bound to happen.

Adios mi amigo,

[Advertising]

[Wymore Wrangler]

I've got agree with you Hext on this one, with the movement to tricked out guns, 1911 style matches on the horizon, I don't see it continuous growth, to many older folks won't play the game, it will be to costly for younger folks with families to get into.  They need to remember that the younger shooters are what's going to carry the sport...

[john boy]

Yorba Linda is moving away too much from original values to just be a cash cow  As for the members of SASS, still tops in my book.
Regards

[Paper Chaser]

Just my 'esteemed estimation' is SASS is experiencing severe growing pains and is trying to handle the influx of so many new members the past few years.

[Will Pluggum]

If you gents don't mind a greenhorn puttin' his two cents in.....I'm not even a member yet, have never been to a shoot, and still a WHOLE LOT I don't know, but I got the bug and want to get involved.  My problem right now is the expense of getting started.  A rifle, TWO revolvers, a shotgun, ammo,  assorted gear.  Good Lord!  Your talkin' $2500 to $3000 just to get started.  This is going to slow down new membership for sure.....

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Howdy Slim,
Welcome to CAS.

The cost has always been a barrier to joining in the game.  And while SASS may have some influence in the prices, I don't think they can get vendors to lower their prices.

Remember that when the game was started, Rugers were $200, a 97 was $100, Stevens 311 was $50 and an original 73 was $500.  For less than $1000, you could get going.  And of course once you are good and addicted, you look in your gun closet and find thousands of dollars in guns, leather and clothes. 

My question/reflection is more directed towards the steady erosion of members in long standing.
Adios,

[Will Pluggum]

Not having been there, anything I said would be a guess.  Maybe to much commercialization or it's overly competitive?  From what I'm reading, it can be pretty exhausting to compete.   Maybe it's simply burn-out.  It's not unusual for any organization that experiences  explosive growth like this to flounder and loose sight of thier goals.  Maybe the the head hauncos need to sit down and re-define what this sport is and where it should go.  thanks for listenin'

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Slim,

Those are all good ideas.. and just as valid as anyone's else..
Keep em coming amigo,

[St. George]

In a way, I think that the rush to be "all things Cowboy" has hurt the organization.
SASS is very good at what SASS does and that's the promotion of SASS.
They do get their message across and they also send out reps to gun shows armed with videos and handouts to tempt new shooters.
No other outfit does that.
I think that they're the only one with a marketing program.
But I also think that shooters who have tried IPSC and the race guns were looking for something a bit less "high-tech" and since they liked action shooting - well, what better than Cowboy Action Shooting?
It was fun, it was low-tech and everybody'd liked to play cowboy as kids - hell - it was tailor-made...
The "problem" is that some of those guys weren't satisfied just shooting - they had to compete. then, they really had to compete and they started for a way to look at mechanical advantages - just like they did in IPSC.
Prices of gear went up and two revolvers are a bunch of money to a guy with a young family, who just liked to shoot Old West guns.
The "regular" folks started to see this slight shift away from the basics and saw that as the wave of the future as the top competitors (and their tricked-out gear) were lionized in print.
So, I think a lot of them pulled back a little.
The thing is - I think that there are a lot of those "regular" folks out there - just waiting.
They need to  find out about WASA and NCOWS and GAF and the associated groups that really make up the whole "Cowboy" shooting world.
I think that for many, those organizations will eventually become the "backbone" of the sport as the sport eventually finds its way and stabilizes.

Scouts Out!

[Will Ketchum]

Slim you thing CAS is expensive just be grateful you didn't take up sky diving or hot air ballooning.  Lots of ups and downs to those hobbies .

Seriously, it doesn't have to be real expensive for a new person.  Problem is most want to jump right in buy new guns leather and duds.  If they would just take their time. Go to a couple of matches talk to the shooters try a few guns they will save themselves some money by not buying something they aren't happy with later.  Used gear can be purchased at nearly every shoot.  Exceptable clothing can be picked up at thrift stores and garage sales. 

No one is expected to show up at their first shoot with all the guns, leather and clothing.  If you just make an effort they will see that you really want to get into CAS and nearly everyone will practically trip over themselves trying to get you started.  I know you have heard this before but maybe you don't quite believe it.  Believe it!! It's true.

I have enough guns, leather, hats, vests and assorted clothing to equip and cloth an entire posse (well if they are all fat guys )

There are many more just like me and yes if I'm the one driving I bring all of the guns and leather!

Will Ketchum

[Will Pluggum]

Will...I understand.  I have been around long enough to have grandchildren and one thing I've learned is not to jump into anything with both feet.  Just ease your way in and listen when someone offers advice.  Get a feel and then decide what you need.  People will actually let you shoot their guns?  This is very big of them.  I came from a background where people are hesitant to let others handle thier firearms.  My local club meets March 6 for a shoot and I'm planning on being there.  Thanks again to all for the warm welcome I found here.....Slim
OH....ABOUT SKYDIVING....heard a good one the other day.
"if at first you don't succeed......you should probably not take up skydiving"

[Calamity Jane]

"Is SASS fading?"

I hope so. Don't associate with thieves 'n' less than honorable folk.....

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Slim, I kid you not.. you'll be amazed at how many folks will be faling over themselves trying to loan you guns and gear.  That's why we caution new folks to take their time and try out lots of different guns, cause there is no shortage of loaners.

CJ... I feel your pain.  The world is a wheel, say some...

Adios,

[Standpat Steve]

When SASS started, you only needed one revolver, rifle & shotgun. Everybody had pretty much been exposed to drawing from leather, moving & shooting in "combat shooting " of some type. Now you have people who have never shot before starting to show up at SASS matches. The rules needed for 1000 to play are different than for 25,000 to play. SASS isn't fading, but it is redefining itself some, and experiencing some growing pains. I think that soon, it will have attracted most of those predisposed to shoot Cowboy, and level off some before getting more manageable (smaller) again.

Not bad, just different . . .

Standpat Steve, SASS #113, Calif.

[Marshal Halloway]

I don't believe SASS is fading, but they sure do have more challenges than ever before. In my opinion, not directly because of the increase in membership, but we have a new breed of shooters and guns coming in. Let me first emphasize that all new shooters are welcome. What is important and this is probably the biggest challenge; every level of members should feel that SASS and other organizations are their home ground.

I have inititated a national organization myself and it is a miniature compared to SASS, but this new level of competitiveness is a challenge, no matter how big the organization is. The pressure from "competition cas guns" has an effect whether we admit it or not. I was on a denial on this issue for a long time, but I do see even in Scandinavia with 600+ active CAS shooters, that we have to deal with it. Many new shooters feel they have to have the best, the best clothes, the best whatever, just to be "accepted". This is more a personal feeling than the truth.

I have started a lot of new shooters these past years and I still stick to my old school book: Get the allowed guns you want, shoot the 45's, if the intention is to live out the old dream. Some new shooters come back rather confused telling me they have been advised to shoot 38 and with tuned up guns. Well, I don't argue, I just tell them once again they do have options and the gut feeling, the wallet and the rule book is the ground you're standing on. Anyway, they do feel the pressure and it is our job not to let that pressure take the top seat.

When I say deal with, I don't mean banning guns and ammo we couldn't foresee back in the 80's. Many of our champions today are rolemodels and bring in new members to our family.

BUT..........

We need to take better care of the general membership and highlight these members as much as we highlight our champions. This is the SASS challenge as well as for other organizations. If we don't, we will see a new IPSC/IDPA situation. The history has a tendency to repeat itself and we, the membership, local officers, the TGs and the WB together need to work on this together.

If we don't, we all have ourselves to blame. Local clubs are in fact more important than the SASS office with all due respect. Local clubs are in charge when it comes to taking care of those that just want to have fun even competing with the good old guns.

I am a competitive shooter myself, but I still shoot 45's with a 780-800 fps in my pistols. I don't win at big events any longer, but for me, it is important to be a role model for those that can't afford competition guns and don't have the time to practise for the big awards.

  tongue in cheek: I often say to my fellow founding fathers in SWS: We won a lot of games back in the old days, but when we opened up for the membership, the "problem started". They have the nerve to beat us... 

[Foothills Drifter]

Howdy......
I have looked this thread over very carefully and have come to the conclusion that both St. George and Marshal Halloway have most accurately surmized the situation (I bet ya ain't never heard a cowboy talk like that before ) Well anyhow I think they have said it all and said it best!

Good shootin......
Vern...

[Russ T Chambers]

Howdy Folks
Since my first EOT in 1989 (and even just before that, shooting with Bill Hahn and his wife Dorothy), I must say I have never ran into a more out going, friendly group of people than CAS shooters.  I hesitate to use the word camaraderie, as it seems to always crop up, but it fits.  Heading into my sixteenth consecutive EOT I feel I have to comment on whether or not we are fading.
With memberships reflected in badge numbers well over 50,000 I don’t think we can say we have a new membership problem.  When I was first getting started, period clothing was almost non-existent, lever guns in pistol calibers were hard to come by, and authentic holsters were basically in the realm of antiques.  And I used to frequent the Pomona gun show when it was at its apex and couldn’t find much.
The first year I attended EOT at Coto de Caza I believed we had a total of 5-10 vendors.  Last year at EOT it was well over 100.  I realize EOT is something that not everyone can attend either because of distance or cost, but it does offer some insight to the growth of the sport. (Over 500 ground shooters).
I think the biggest contribution to the growth of our sport is accomplished at the local club level.  It is imperative for the local clubs to make new shooters and spectators feel welcome.  These are the people that bring new blood to Cowboy Action Shooting.  I have personally decided to not shoot at several of our local matches, simply to take the time to explain all the aspects of our sport to people that stop by to see what all these people dressed in strange outfits are up to.  I know that this has led to many a new shooter at our club.  However, don’t let it stop there.  New shooters should be encouraged, made to feel part of the group, and included in all the aspects of a shoot.  Most want to help with setup, tear down, running stages and other tasks.  They just need someone to show them what needs to be done and to help them learn.  This makes for a shooter who does more than come out, shoot the stages, then leave.  You end up with a true Cowboy Action Shooter.  Fading, no!  Evolving and growing, yes!
I guess I spouted enough for my first post here.

[Will Ketchum]

Russ T.  Thanks for the post.  It is nice to hear from someone who has been at this game longer than me.

You joined in the late 80s and I in 94.  It took 5 or 6 years to grow by 4000.  We seem to grow that much in 6months  these days

Thanks for showing the way to help new shooters. 

Will Ketchum