All Four

[DrummerBoy]

Exacta-mundo!! In a way this ROT increase makes Pondoro Taylor’s concept of a heavy for caliber bullet possible especially for the 50-95…even with a 450 plus slug there’s enough room in the case to really make a pretzel out of that little bolt..
Is there a way to calculate the “safe” limit of the system? Uberti does seem to have made a .44 magnum on the 73 chassis…

[Roosterman]

So we can shoot heavier bullets.

I'd just as soon shoot what the old guns did. Although the fast twist did pull my bacon out of the fire with my 40 60.

[DrummerBoy]

I looked at one too many hotrodded flathead ford v8 motors with the Offenhauser heads manifolds and headers as a kid, I’m afraid…I need a formula to calculate bolt thrust..and whatever other forces are involved…not actually trying to make an AK 500..just going for a heavy bullet

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[King Medallion]

Is there a way to calculate the “safe” limit of the system? Uberti does seem to have made a .44 magnum on the 73 chassis…

Yes! Stick with Black Powder! Or if you must, Start low with smokeless powders, Trail Boss, 4198, such like powders. Read the threads on Loading for the 50/95, 45/75, 45/60, 40/60, it will tell what you need to know.
The more I shoot mine, the more I like shooting Black Powder. Kinda a hassle to clean the brass, but cleaning the rifle itself is easy. Soap and water with a patch.

[DrummerBoy]

Okay so today was a red letter day for me: took the 50-95 Prasidio and the 45-60 Mountie Cimarron carbines to the range with some store bought ammo from Steinel.  My biggest concern was whether or not my rifles and this ammo would actually match up.
Wish I could import a pic of the last target at 50 yards.
I was shooting off my elbows sitting at a concrete desk, 5 shot string from both rifles
NO KEYHOLES! At least at 50 yards. Very mild recoil in both cases…5 inch group for the 45-60, 7 inch group from the 50-95….I liked the sights better on the 45-60. I wasn’t using any form of rest other than my elbows, so I blame me for the groups.. the target paper was two 14”” roundels, one atop the other.  Both rifles shot about 9 “ higher than point of aim at 50 yd
The Cimarron carbines and the Steinel ammo do well enough for me!
I’ll try to figure out how to upload a piccie!
Semper Fi

[greyhawk]

when I ordered mine (late 2013) Uberti were advertising the winchester (slower) twist in all calibres, except the 45/75 which was a 20 twist.
Dont know if that was the truth at the time but am sure it was what the advert said. Looks like they changed things since then?

[greyhawk]

I looked at one too many hotrodded flathead ford v8 motors with the Offenhauser heads manifolds and headers as a kid, I’m afraid…I need a formula to calculate bolt thrust..and whatever other forces are involved…not actually trying to make an AK 500..just going for a heavy bullet

Winchester blew up a 76 under test and several years ago a feller blew one ("Shrapnel" we used to see his posts occasionally) - from the pictures and descriptions both those guns blew out the bottom of the barrel where its thinnest, ie  just ahead of the chamber and where the cutout for the magazine tube is on the underside - the toggle link actions and bolt held on both guns. In the winchester test apparently one or both sideplates were blown off - we wouldnt knpw whether that was the action stretching OR gas from the rupture coming back through the magazine tube into the action.   

Winchester actually loaded ammo for the 45/75 with a 450 grain PP boolit over 90 grains of powder. 

[DrummerBoy]

Howdy Mr GreyHawk thanks for your notes! As I mentioned to King, my words are a lot more cavalier than my actions ( and my thoughts are too weird to publish)..safety, to be clear is paramount.  My method of exploring twist was to take a short cleaning rod, load it up with snippings from a cleaning rag, stuff it in the muzzle and then push until the duct tape flag went thru a quarter turn…repeated several times to get an average plunge then multiplied by four….seems like around 22-ish for both 45-60 and 50-95
I was happy ( considering my relatively ignorant status) with my shots at 50 yards just cause they weren’t tumbling and all went near to the same spot.  Today I ll try at 100 yds.  I’m using the Steinel ammo that Cimarron sells but I would like a heavier bullet than their 350 in the 50 and 300 in the 45
More Later

[greyhawk]

Howdy Mr GreyHawk thanks for your notes! As I mentioned to King, my words are a lot more cavalier than my actions ( and my thoughts are too weird to publish)..safety, to be clear is paramount.  My method of exploring twist was to take a short cleaning rod, load it up with snippings from a cleaning rag, stuff it in the muzzle and then push until the duct tape flag went thru a quarter turn…repeated several times to get an average plunge then multiplied by four….seems like around 22-ish for both 45-60 and 50-95
I was happy ( considering my relatively ignorant status) with my shots at 50 yards just cause they weren’t tumbling and all went near to the same spot.  Today I ll try at 100 yds.  I’m using the Steinel ammo that Cimarron sells but I would like a heavier bullet than their 350 in the 50 and 300 in the 45
More Later

I thought they might have changed the twist rates - woulda made sense to me - US shooters seem to have an obsession with shooting heaviest boolit they can get - (maybe the latest fad after "hard cast") anyway I went to the 2022 Uberti catalog the advert says 50/95 twist = 1:48, 45/60 twist = 1:40. 45/75 twist = 1:20 - they dont list a 40/60 anymore and the whole 1876 advert is squeezed into a corner - would not surprise me at all if they drop it from the lineup this year or next-- glad I have my 76 safe and sound and super glad I got the 45/75 - mine shoots a 335g, 405g, and the 460 g postel/ money boolit all do well over blackpowder - have shot a pointy 500 3R LEE in it too (good results at closer ranges - gets the wobbles somewhere out past 400 if there is any wind)

I wonder did they (Uberti) think this through - a 20 twist 45/60 using smokeless and heavy boolits ? maybe they didnt want to encourage that? ditto the 50/95 with a 500+ grain pill and a dose of smokeless --------- or did they just follow the winchester catalog?   

[DrummerBoy]

Thanks for the note!!
Well, I had read all the catalog notes myself, and saw the same data you did, and made up my mind that ROT wasn’t going to rule my world: the charisma of the 76 comes from its peculiarities more than it’s perfections… I still feel that way! Most pressing issue on my agenda is to beg borrow or steal two more 76’s in whatever caliber still available in order to Mount these 40-60 and 45-75 barrels to….
Semper Fi

[greyhawk]

Thanks for the note!!
Well, I had read all the catalog notes myself, and saw the same data you did, and made up my mind that ROT wasn’t going to rule my world: the charisma of the 76 comes from its peculiarities more than it’s perfections… I still feel that way! Most pressing issue on my agenda is to beg borrow or steal two more 76’s in whatever caliber still available in order to Mount these 40-60 and 45-75 barrels to….
Semper Fi

Same here ---I just HAD TO HAVE a 45/75 ---original 1876's are extremely rare in our country and I had missed on three in 45/75 over my lifetime plus the unique "look" of that round - so when I ordered that was what I got - only became aware of the twist issue later ---if there is an "issue ? " -- I would be quite happy shooting any of these in their original configuration ( a 50/95 throwing a 350 grain boolit at 1500FPS+ is not something to be sneered at)

just because we read it in their catalog dont mean its the gospel truth either - thats an advertisement designed to put our hard earned $ in Aldos pocket - somebody may have forgot to change the specs ? if they made all those barrels in 20 twist would make a lot of sense from a manufacturing, inventory, supply chain point of view.

[Black River Smith]

GREETINGS from New Orleans,
Drummer Boy here, with a dream.
and just now TWO 28” BARRELS on 40-60 and 45-75…I got the barrels because I want all four calibers (curses on you and your book, Duke Venturino!!) but guns in 40-60 and 45-75 seem to have dried up. I need a plan for this
Semper Fi
Fred

Drummer Boy,
Can I ask!  Where or how did you get ahold of a 40-60 barrel?  I am totally interested in getting a 40-60 rifle but like you stated they have dried up; they are not being produced any longer and no-one is offering their's for sale.

[DrummerBoy]

GreyHawk THANKS for the interest! In scrutinizing the Cimarron website I found a parts for sale section. Lo and Behold, they had both barrels on there, so I called my favorite sales person and ordered them!  They showed up on my doorstep three days later, 28” octagonal barrels one on 40-60 and the other in 45-75, both dovetailed for sights and notched for the extractor, and threaded! Even a slight curvature machined out of the bottom face to accommodate the mag tube! VTI or Midwest might have one..
Best,
DB

[Black River Smith]

DrummerBoy,

Thanks for responding, I already tried VTI but no luck there.

This barrel replacement is a better idea than trying to find a complete 40-60 for sale.  Especially after Abilene clarified the lifter/carriage issue I thought existed.  I almost did the same thing when looking for a 38-40 rifle last year.

[DrummerBoy]

Hey Black River Smith,
Thanks for the note and I apologize for the name mixup!
Best,
DB

[ATCDoktor]

I believe all of these uberti '76's are all twisted far faster than the originals...not sure why they would do that.

For those of us that shoot the 50/95, the original rate of twist for that caliber was 1:60.

With a rate of twist that slow you would be extremely limited with respect to the bullet weights you could use (not much heavier than 300 grains).

[Roosterman]

For those of us that shoot the 50/95, the original rate of twist for that caliber was 1:60.

With a rate of twist that slow you would be extremely limited with respect to the bullet weights you could use (not much heavier than 300 grains).

They were intended as express rifles back in the day, light bullet and fast FPS.
 and relatively short range. Dangerous  soft skinned game at close range.  the old factory loads used 300gr bullets.
 The bullet I'm shooting goes about 330gr. I'm glad I don't have to shoot anything heavier.

[ATCDoktor]

They were intended as express rifles back in the day, light bullet and fast FPS.
 and relatively short range. Dangerous  soft skinned game at close range.  the old factory loads used 300gr bullets.

You needn’t type your fingers to the bone in an attempt to share info on the history of the Winchester 1876, the cartridges for which it is chambered and why Winchester used the rates of twist they used to me or the majority of the regular posters here.

We did our homework many years ago and are quite familiar.

With respect to Uberti and Chaparral updating the rates of twist for some of the calibers they offer in their reproduction 1876’s; it has certainly made it easier for some of us to get useable accuracy with a wider range of bullet weights/bullet lengths and smokeless powder.

5 rounds out of my Chaparral short rifle with 1:48 twist using .515 diameter 450 grain bullets H4198 powder at 100 yards (velocity was just short of 1300 fps)

[Roosterman]

You needn’t type your fingers to the bone in an attempt to share info on the history of the Winchester 1876, the cartridges for which it is chambered and why Winchester used the rates of twist they used to me or the majority of the regular posters here.

Thanks for the  spanking. Obviously, many don't understand the importance of twist rate and the '76, including Uberti.

[King Medallion]