1873 recommendation

[Abilene]

Well, Grumpy, if you're really "feeling the history and intent" of the caliber, might as well go all the way and load black powder  

But seriously, before you start buying components, dies, and such, read the multitude of discussions on loading the 44wcf, particularly for Uberti guns.  Uberti chambers tend to be tight for modern ammo.  They are supposed to have .429 bores  but reloads with .429 can take some tweaking.  What many have found is that you need to stick with Winchester or Starline brass (Black Hills is marked BHA but as said made by Starline).  R-P and others are too thick for .429 bullets.  Even with the .429 bore some shoot .428 or even .427 with good luck, and brass thickness is less of an issue.  Some dies don't set the shoulder down far enough when resizing and need to have a little taken off the bottom of the die.  And with some dies (like Lee) it helps to use a .429 belling insert instead of the .427 that it came with, again as mentioned, if using the larger bullets.   And the Lee Factory Crimp (Collett) die is highly recommended.

Yeah, I know, someone says they load .430 bullets with any kind of brass for their Uberti with no problems, but more often it may take some adjusting to get it right, and after that no problemo.

[Grumpy Granville]

  BP  

A Lee factory crimp will definitely go on the short list..I didn't know its crimping action's achieved by a collet, that's fantastic.  Based solely on the positive comments, I can only surmise the slots between collet fingers close sufficiently once it's seated so that the resultant crimp is consistently smooth about the circumference of a loaded cartridge??

Are the Cimarron's known to have fairly consistent bores?  If so, is .429 their nominal size?  Does that also ring true across Uberti's various offerings in 44-40?

[Coffinmaker]

Aright Grumpy,

Here's how it works, once you Feel the Power of The Dark Side, there is no going back.  Resistance is Futile .... You Will be Assimilated!!!

Now .....

Yes.  Cimarron Rifles are consistent.  One thing to remember.  Cimarron does NOT manufacture guns.  Cimarron imports them.  The guns a manufactured primarily by Pietta and Uberti.  Pietta primarily handguns.  Uberti make most all the rifles.  Some years back, there was not a lot of consistency from Uberti.  Some Lustrum ago, Uberti standardized.  Nominal bore for Uberti 44-40 is 429.  Not so much chambers.  If you have a Uberti rifle 44-40 and two Uberti 44-40 pistols, you may well have 3 different chamber sizes.  That can be loads of fun.  That can be fix'd but some find it annoying to have to have a cylinder reamed on a new gun.  Oh, almost forgot.  ALL Uberti 44s except Cap Guns are bored 429 +/-

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[Cholla Hill Tirador]

  Grumpy-
 Not too long ago, after almost 40 years of reloading "normal" cartridges, I acquired a 44-40 simply because I fell in love with a Uberti 1866 Sporting Rifle that was chambered therein. A couple of original '73 Winchesters in 38-40 followed shortly thereafter.

  I'd read for some time the horror and difficulty experienced by many when reloading these cartridges. Having reloaded all manner of cartridges since I was a young teenager, I couldn't figure out what could be so difficult about the xx-40 cartridges and wrote it off to drama.

  When folks here refer to the bore diameter of their firearms, they actually mean groove diameter. I've owned exactly four .44 caliber Uberti lever rifles in 44-40, .44 Special, and .44 Magnum and they all had groove diameters of .429". Since I already cast for a few .44 Specials and a .44 Magnum and size their bullets .430" my 44-40 bullets got the same treatment and fed like the proverbial $h1t through a goose, in two different 44-40's. As with any rifle cartridge whose bullet needs to be crimped in place, case length is very important and ensuring your cases are trimmed the same length will likely head off any problems.

  I bet you're going to have fun with your rifle. I've loaded smokeless and BP and enjoy both, although smokeless is more simple to load and efficient.

 

  I'm Jones-ing for an 1866 carbine in 44-40 as I enjoy hunting with this caliber, maybe later this year.

 CHT

[King Medallion]

That us some beautiful wood on that 66. Is it refinished? The more I shoot mine the more I like
,but is still has that redish finish to it. I've never slugged my barrells on any of my 7 44-40's, I shoot .428s with no issues. But I don't do long range shooting either. Yet.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

That us some beautiful wood on that 66. Is it refinished? The more I shoot mine the more I like
,but is still has that redish finish to it. I've never slugged my barrells on any of my 7 44-40's, I shoot .428s with no issues. But I don't do long range shooting either. Yet.

 Thanks much. Yes it is refinished, hand rubbed with a BLO/gum turpentine mix. This is what it looked like before.

 

  Yeah, I bet .428" bullets will work fine with light loads at typical CAS ranges. Part of the fun with this rifle for me has been regulating the ladder sights out to 300 yds.

  CHT

[Grumpy Granville]

Thank you for your post, Cholla HT.  I've also refinished several guns with BLO.  BLO will produce a finish that's simply gorgeous.  I've been on a shellac kick lately.  While the learning curve is a bit steep, the results are fabulously organic.

With guns, I generally like to leave 'em alone but, the urge is strong in me so that doesn't always work out so well..lol.

The 1873 Carbine remains en' route.  I've got bullets waiting.  I also have a set of Lyman dies on order..actually hoping the bore casts at .429 b/c that will allow some degree of continuity with the .44 caliber residing in the safe.  (not currently reloading .44)

Been binging on Deadwood and Clint flicks..I'm ripe to administer some justice!!  My lovely bride says I'm a total dipshit  

[Grumpy Granville]

Anyone care to share some pet loads for 200gr cowboy lead?

I have the following powders on hand: Unique, Red Dot, Trailboss &, Bullseye.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

Anyone care to share some pet loads for 200gr cowboy lead?

I have the following powders on hand: Unique, Red Dot, Trailboss &, Bullseye.

 What kind of loads? Plinking, CAS or hunting?

[Grumpy Granville]

What kind of loads? Plinking, CAS or hunting?

Moderately stout plinking loads with a nod toward accuracy (50-100 yds)

[King Medallion]

7.5 Green Dot shot well for me, in my 66.

[Coffinmaker]

Yes Sir!!  Absolutely.  20 - 25Gr 2 or 3f complete the fill with Cream-0-Wheat, 180Gr or Mav 200 Big lube bullets.  Or just fill the Case.  With a Rifle, recoil is no big deal.

[Cliff Fendley]

Moderately stout plinking loads with a nod toward accuracy (50-100 yds)

Look at Unique or Titegroup for accuracy. I have been using mostly Trailboss for cas smokeless loads for the past few years because I like how it fills the case but doing accuracy tests Titegroup is better and seems to not be position sensitive which is important on big black powder cases with a small amount of powder.

Last year a friend of mine did a little more extensive accuracy testing of about six different powders in 44wcf in Uberti rifles and Unique and Titegroup were neck in neck the best. He said Trailboss was actually the least accurate on grouping.

I acquired a good deal on a bunch of Titegroup so once my Trailboss runs out I'll probably just switch to all Titegroup for my cas smokeless loads.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

Anyone care to share some pet loads for 200gr cowboy lead?

I have the following powders on hand: Unique, Red Dot, Trailboss &, Bullseye.

 Here' are my results with Unique. Remember this is from s 24" barrel so I'd guess you'll have a 100-150 fps lower velocity. These are all with a 220 gr. RNFP, but velocities will be practically the same with a 200 gr. bullet.

  7.5 Unique- 1103 fps; e.s.- 13
  8.0 Unique- 1163 fps; e.s.- 67
  8.5 Unique- 1218 fps; e.s.- 41
  9.0 Unique- 1282 fps; e.s.- 84
  9.5 Unique- 1317 fps; e.s.- 50 This load was quite accurate all the way out to 300 yds.

  The Lyman Cat Bullet Manual and the RCBS Cast Manual both show higher charges with Unique, but I didn't see any need.

 I was only interested in hunting loads, so I didn't try any Red Dot or Bullseye. I tested quite a bit of GOEX 2Fg, Swiss 3Fg and Pyrodex P, but looks like you're sticking with smokeless.

 CHT

  CHT 

[Coal Creek Griff]

  8.5 Unique- 1218 fps; e.s.- 41

That's my standard load.  I don't hunt (or compete), but I like a plinking load with some authority, but that I can shoot for years without overly stressing the gun.

CC Griff

[Grumpy Granville]

Gentlemen, thank you much for your kindness.  The information you've shared should get me off to a pretty good start.  8.5 of Unique sounds like a good place to begin.  Titegroup's on the shopping list.

The gun's arrived.  While nice, unfortunately, the wrong gun was shipped.  I ordered a standard blue carbine.  What arrived is a charcoal blued carbine with case colored receiver so, back it'll go for replacement.

That aside, the fit and finish appears quite good with exception of two things.  The front sight stands a few degrees off vs properly vertical.  Considering the front sight is brazed? to the front barrel band, perhaps this could be adjusted..haven't looked at it close enough to tell.  Second, the roll stamps are very weak to the extent several of the characters are missing half their legend..that's pretty disappointing but not so bad I'd refuse the gun.

Ah well, it'll get sorted and worse things happen in the world so..

[Abilene]

...  What arrived is a charcoal blued carbine with case colored receiver so, back it'll go for replacement....

Well, that's too bad.  Just have to be a bit more patient.  Funny, though, what arrived would have been my choice.  But then if we all liked and shot the same things it would be pretty boring.

Front to back, .45 Colt trapper, .357 charcoal blue, .44wcf charcoal blue, 20" .44 Spcl.

[King Medallion]

Sounds to me like you got a better looking gun! I'd think hard on sending it back because of that. Of course, if you like black/blued, thats up to you. As for the rollmarks being faded or light, how will that effect your shooting? Your sposed to be looking at targets and sights, not rollmarks.    If the sights can't be adjusted, that would be another matter.

[Grumpy Granville]

That's a nice line-up, Abilene

Yep, I can be patient..not a huge deal.  The rollmarks, as I said, are a little disappointing just b/c it looks shabby & demonstrates poor workmanship but it's certainly not a deal breaker.  I had another look at the front sight and it's definitely off, probably 4/5 degrees...that is annoying.  

As to the charcoal blue - yeah, different strokes for different folks.  Charcoal blue's not for me.  Since rust blue isn't an option off the shelf, I'll stick with standard blue.  Also, don't want a cc frame on this one.

If I wanted a charcoal blued rifle with cc'd receiver, well, that's what I would have ordered.  

[King Medallion]

Yes, sir! Different strokes for different folks. Get the one that speaks to you. Everyone has their own taste.