Waitin' for the dust to settle...

[Old Dude]

I kinda waited until the dust settled on the "short strokes banned" thread before asking a question.

I haven't joined NCOWS yet, but plan to. I'll have to assemble some sort of outfit (even though there is no posse near here) and get a couple guns.

I read through the By-Laws (printed them out, even) and I understand there is a list of approved and banned firearms, though the list doesn't seem to be on the website. Thus, the question:

I haven't bought any firearms for NCOWS yet, but I have my gun dealer of choice is a Cimarron dealer and the place just down the road from me (about a third of a mile) is a Charles Daly dealer. I'm assuming that a Colt reproduction from either of those would be fine? I can't see why not, but I'm so new at this that my ignorance is only exceeded by my age.

Also, should I acquire a Cimarron reproduction of a Winchester '73 (in 44-40 if I'm looking for maximum authenticity), that also should be OK assuming it's stock from the box? (I have neither the expertise to modify one or the money to pay someone else to do so for me.)

Thank you all very much for your time and attention.

[Irish Dave]

Old Dude:

Good to see your post and for considering NCOWS membership. I don't think you would be disappointed. I also applaud you for asking the questions first rather than just going out and buying something and then find out that it isn't approved and being PO'ed at the organization. You have exactly the right approach, IMHO.

OK here goes:
1) Cimarron -- these are of course approved and acceptible firearms EXCEPT for the birdshead grip models and the 7/8 frame size Model P Juniors, Lightnings.

2) Charles Daly -- These wre brought up at the last Congress, but delayed until February. The Congress wanted more info on them and, hopefully, one to actually hold and inspect before ruling on them. I would suspect they will be approved, but that's not certain until the February Congress meeting.

3) Cimarron '73 Rifle/Carbine: Is perfectly acceptible provided it is basically "stock" and not internally modified (except for general smoothing, stoning, etc. of the action).

Hope this helps.

[Sod Buster]

I read through the By-Laws (printed them out, even) and I understand there is a list of approved and banned firearms, though the list doesn't seem to be on the website. Thus, the question:

Old Dude:
At the top of the By-Laws page (right over the words "National Congress of Old West Shootist) there are links to the "Approved" and "Unapproved" lists.
Approved: http://www.ncows.org/Approved.htm
Unapproved: http://www.ncows.org/Not_approved.htm

[Advertising]

[Old Dude]

Well, now, Sod Buster thanks for the link. I guess these old eyes are just not what they used to be. (Well, actually they ARE just what they used to be, which is part of the problem!  )

And thank you, Irish Dave, for the information as well.

[Dakota Widowmaker]

I had to look hard for the links as well...don't feel bad.

[Old Dude]

Soooooooooo, I called my gun shop of choice yesterday and talked to my usual salesman.

5.5" Uberti Cattleman .45 Colt for $320.
7.5" Uberti Outlaw (1875 Remington Clone) .45 Colt for $380.

Decisions. Decisions.

[St. George]

Before you decide - make sure you handle them first.

The Colt, Smith & Wesson and Remington revolvers all differ in feel and 'pointability', and  you're going to want one that feels good in your hand.

The large bore - thanks to less metal - makes for a gun that feels more 'natural' than the smaller-bored ones.

Good Luck.

Scouts Out!

[Old Dude]

Thanks, St. George. Next Friday we get what is called "Stability Pay"--a reward for putting up with all the pasture patties at work. The amount will cover each--though not both.

I have arranged to take next Friday off, and I will be going out to have a chat with Marv.

I have rented a Beretta Stampede twice. It was a joy to shoot--both two handed and one-handed. It seemed to point nearly to target naturally.

Again, St. George, thanks for the good guidance. I shall handle both of them before deciding.

[Lars]

Old Dude,

Perhaps this is already in your mind. When handling the guns try to differentiate between factors other than the grips and the grips themselves. Grips can be reshaped or replaced -- and many folks do that. The right grips or the right fit of grips to your hands can be important too. Many of us go through various grips and grip shapes (all on the same gun) before we settle on what works best for us.

Many guns come with thick wood grips. For some of us they are too thick and we rasp and sand them to better fit us. Other folks never do anything to the factory grips. Some folks buy thinner or differently shaped aftermarket grips.

There are other important factors to what works for a individual, total gun weight, barrel length, balance, ease of cocking, etc.-- as already mentioned. Not much can be done to change some of these. One either adapts to them or finds another gun. All this can be a bit bewildering to a person new to shooting revolvers.

Your first gun may become a big learning experience in what works for you. Time permitting, it is best to shoot some friend's guns before buying.

Lars

[Old Dude]

All I can say is that I have shot a Stampede--one and two handed. Liked it. The grips did not seem large, and I don't have large hands. It seemed easy enough to cock, even as a rather beat up and neglected range rental. The only surprise was the type of recoil--a rolling push rather than the snap I get from my 9mm semi-autos. Once I got used to it, it was fun. So, I have shot a close relative of the Uberti Cattleman.

I will give both of them a good look and as much action as Marv will let me. At present, I am leaning toward the Cattleman because I am just starting and don't want to spend too much before I get a sense of whether this is an activity I will enjoy and want to participate in. Also, I have done some homework and found it is easier to get gunleather for a Colt. After this, it's time to think rifles. 

Lars, thanks for your time and thoughts on this. I'm going to bring notes with me on Friday.

[Black River Smith]

Welcome to NCOWS.

Look at the working cowboy criteria in the By-laws.  If it suits you, you then can start with only one pistol.

The Uberti for $320 is a very good price in my opinion. Always fun to shoot the old west guns.

Black River Smith

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Old Dude,
I don't know what your intentions are but if you are going to bulld yourself a persona or impression (two different things), you may want to choose yourself a time period and purchase your equipement around that. For example, you couldn't carry a 1886, 1892 Winchester or replica and do a Custer/Big Horn era impression (1876), even though they have in Hollywood it just doesn't look right.

The 1875 Remington would be good for anything 1875 and after. Depending on whether the peacemaker style gun is the so called Colt black powder frame model (1873-1878?) or the one with the transfer bar, would have a lot to do with the time period you choose to portray. The black powder frame peacemaker type 1873's could have and were carried from the time of their manufacture to well after the turn of the century, wtih the 1878 version carried from that time forward (I hope I haven't totally confused you, I know I am).

Now, NCOWS is not that stickey on the colt type guns but there are a lot of us that try to get as close to our impression as possible. Any help I can give you feel free to PM me or, e-mail me at bill@surf-ici.com. There are plenty of us that belong to NCOWS that are more interested in the historical aspect of the era then just shooting and try to maintain as accuratly as possible the Old West feeling.

Bill

[Old Dude]

BRS and OCB--thanks to you both for valuable information.

I have actually given the matter of time some thought. For some reason (what reason, I can't fathom), I have arbitrarily chosen 1885. That means that 1873 Colt-types and 1875 Remington-types are acceptable. And for a lever, when I scrape up the scratch for it, probably 1866 or 1873 Winchester. And if I pick a single shot rifle, well, anything up to the 1885 Low Wall or High Wall is possible.

As for a persona--well, I already have a reputation as something of a mouth, so it seems natural (to me, at least), to be something like a failed politician from back East who comes West to try my luck in new lands. I will probably dress a bit more formally than some. Got my eye on a derby and frock coat.

OCB--I can also be e-mailed at bdwilliams44@gmail.com. If you have specific suggestions, of course I would welcome them.

[O.T. Buchannan]

Hmmm.....Old Dude....politician from back East, you say...circa 1885?  Seems there WAS a man who got into politics up in New York...but had several personal issues, and moved to the Dakotas and bought a ranch about that time.  Did ok in that business, but eventually moved back East and did quite well on the political scene.  When the Spanish American War broke out in 1898, he helped put together a regiment of Volunteer Cavalry (which actually fought on foot) and he eventually found himself in the leadership role in that regiment, and acquitted himself well in battle. 

The regiment was fairly unique, being comprised of some of the 'Western types' from his days in the Dakotas, including several American Indians, but the regiment ALSO included some of his overly wealthy Eastern friends.

After the war was over, he wrote a book about his experiences (quite a good book, actually), and he continued his political life, and very soon found himself in the ULTIMATE U.S. Political position.....President of the United States.

Needless to say, I'm speaking of Theodore Roosevelt.  He is known to have owned quite a few weapons, but his WESTERN armament was an 1873 Colt Peacemaker in .44-40 calibre, with a 7 1/2 inch barrel, and an 1876 Winchester.

Anyway, Old Dude, it sounds as if you are getting off on the right foot with your choice of armament...... 

[Will Ketchum]

Old Dude, the best advice you can have is to try as many revolvers as possible.  They are the most "personal" of the 3 types of guns required.  I have always loved the look of the Remington cartridge revolvers but when I tried them they just didn't balance well in my hands ( to have small hands)  I prefer the S&W New Model number 3s but until recently there weren't any clones.  4 5/8 and 5 1/2 Colts and their clones balance very well for me.

Like Lars said when handling different guns closely observe the grips and how they feel.  This is something you can modify.

Don't be in too much of a hurry to get the pistols.  This can save you a costly mistake.  If you can go to the Convention at Council Bluffs in February there will be hundreds of guns to hold and many for sale.  I have found some great buys there (like a 44WCF brass framed Henry for $550)

Will Ketchum

[Old Dude]

The Beretta Stampede, which is the Uberti in different uniform, felt good as a shooter. I'm no marksman with the Stampede/Cattleman by any means, but it sure does point nice. I shall see how the Outlaw points on Friday.

I made a vow to myself that after two trips to North Carolina this year and a two-week trip to Ireland, I was not going to travel anywhere for a while. However, the convention is in an adjacent state, so that vow may be broken.

[Chantilly]

Old Dude:

1) Cimarron -- these are of course approved and acceptible firearms EXCEPT for the birdshead grip models and the 7/8 frame size Model P Juniors, Lightnings.

I assume (not smart) the Cimarron Thunderer is not approved because of the birds head grips.  If you change the grip frame/grips - ie. remove the birds head frame/grips - is the Thunderer then approved to shoot at an NCOWS match?

[Irish Dave]

Chantilly:

It's my understanding that the birdshead grip is the only thing that differentiates the Thunderer from the Cimarron's standard SAA clone. If I'm correct, you would be, too-- that replacement of the birdshead gripframe/grips with a standard SAA gripframe/grips would indeed make it an approved NCOWS revolver.

[Chantilly]

Thank you Irish Dave!

[Vance Beckett]

One a' the best (an' toughest) parts a' gettin' inta CAS is pickin' out yer shootin' irons...  and right after that, figurin' out which holsters match 'em historic'ly...  and then a' course thar's that blamed hat dilemma...  and the rest of yer clothes...

Seriously though, good luck and welcome Old Dude!  Let me and the boys know when yer throwin' a rally and handin' out buttons!  We'll make sure the party kegs are well guarded!