« previous next »
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Cartridge Loops?  (Read 5770 times)

Offline Vance Beckett

  • Active citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Cartridge Loops?
« on: November 11, 2005, 04:37:37 PM »
When did cartridge loops begin to appear on gun belts?  Does anyone here know?  I've heard they weren't very common in the early 1870's (which makes sense), so would that mean a persona based during that time frame should be using pouches for extra cartridges almost exclusively?  Thanks in advance.  :)
Logged
STORM #185

Offline Wymore Wrangler

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1029
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2005, 06:36:42 PM »
Darn where's the Frontier Spot when you need it, Terry Lane posted that Buffalo Bill Cody ordered a cartridge belt from I believe a St. Joe, Missouri Hardware store in the early 1870's....  Hope Terry see's this one...
Logged
Fast horses for sale, Discount for newly minted gold coins, no questions asked....

Offline Black River Smith

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1191
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 47
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2005, 11:50:53 PM »
The common approach would be to not have them for the early 70's , 71, 72, 73 maybe even 74.  Why?

You decide when cart. revolvers where truly prevalent. SW / REM conversions, Richards1871, 1872, 1873 then the Richard/Masons in 1874, then Rem 1975.

Before that and still during that period the most common revolver (major manuf.) were precussions.  Not everyone could afford to convert or buy new.  The 70's were the great depression years in America.

The loops aren't wrong just would advise also using a narrow belt ~1 1/2".

Just what I like or see in photos.  Look in the book Packing Iron.  Also read some of Marlan Ingrams authenticity articles in the Shootist.

Hope this helps you.  It is not a difinitive answer but a way to look at it.

Black River Smith
Logged
Black River Smith

Advertising

  • Guest
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #3 on: Today at 02:20:15 PM »
Logged

Offline St. George

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4831
  • NCOWS , GAF, B.O.L.D., Order of St. George, SOCOM,
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2005, 01:37:58 AM »
The cartridge belt followed on the heels of the self-contained cartridge - seeing limited use in the Civil War as an unauthorized accouterment to Henrys and Spencers.

In a letter to the Editor of the 'Army and Navy Journal' in 1869 - an anonymous Civil War veteran wrote the following:

"Long before the issue of the present breech-loader to the infantry, those of that corps who were detailed on temporary mounted duty would purchase a breech-loading gun of the Henry, Spencer or other pattern and make for themselves a belt, taking for a pattern that in use by the mountaineers or hunters in their midst. 
The men of entire regiments provided themselves with these belts when the new guns and ammuntion were issued to them;  and they made use of them when on escort duty, changing station, etc. etc.
The old, cumbersome cartridge box was packed up in the same ignominius way in which the old Army hats were carried when changing station.
This is true of the men of the regiments occupying the Powder River country from 1866 to 1868 and who had as good an opportunity to test the matter as any regiments in service during those years."

Remember - civilians often copied that which they saw the Army use - so as breech-loaders and revolvers made their way into the West - 'working' designs would be copied in a commercial manner.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!
Logged
"It Wasn't Cowboys and Ponies - It Was Horses and Men.
It Wasn't Schoolboys and Ladies - It Was Cowtowns and Sin..."

Offline Black River Smith

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1191
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 47
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2005, 11:51:06 AM »
St. George thanks for the info, very nice text you provided.

Black River Smith
Logged
Black River Smith

Offline Vance Beckett

  • Active citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2005, 09:24:52 AM »
Yes, thanks for the great information.  :)  My next question is where can one find a good, leather cartridge pouch for CAS that isn't a Civil War issue item?  Something in brown leather for example?
Logged
STORM #185

Offline St. George

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4831
  • NCOWS , GAF, B.O.L.D., Order of St. George, SOCOM,
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2005, 09:39:03 AM »
You can find such a thing at almost all of the better suppliers - though those Civil War pouches were 'around' for a good, long while and your Impression may've gotten one from somewhere.

Take a look in 'Shoot!' magazine's ads - and the ads in 'The Shootist'.

Wild Rose Trading Company - River Junction - Tonto Rim - San Pedro Saddlery - El Paso Saddlery - Dixie Gun Works and more can all fix you up.

Good Luck.

Scouts Out!

Logged
"It Wasn't Cowboys and Ponies - It Was Horses and Men.
It Wasn't Schoolboys and Ladies - It Was Cowtowns and Sin..."

Offline Vance Beckett

  • Active citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2005, 10:44:22 AM »
I just found exactly what I've been looking for, pouch-wise, at Dixie Gun Works!  Thanks for the help, St. George :)
Logged
STORM #185

Offline St. George

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4831
  • NCOWS , GAF, B.O.L.D., Order of St. George, SOCOM,
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2005, 12:00:09 AM »
De nada...

Ask anytime.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!
Logged
"It Wasn't Cowboys and Ponies - It Was Horses and Men.
It Wasn't Schoolboys and Ladies - It Was Cowtowns and Sin..."

Offline Lone Gunman

  • CAS-L Ghost Rider
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1501
  • The Lone Gunman ...as himself
    • Lone-Gunman.com
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2005, 08:03:55 AM »
Quote from: Wymore Wrangler on November 11, 2005, 06:36:42 PM
Darn where's the Frontier Spot when you need it, Terry Lane posted that Buffalo Bill Cody ordered a cartridge belt from I believe a St. Joe, Missouri Hardware store in the early 1870's....  Hope Terry see's this one...

The picture of the Wyeth Hardware & Mfg belt is on page 11 of RL Wilson's book, "Buffalo Bill's Wild West". It appears to be a money belt. The information on when it was ordered must have came from somewhere else since it isn't provided with the photo.
Logged
George "Lone Gunman" Warnick

"...A man of notoriously vicious & intemperate disposition"

Offline Terry Lane

  • CAS-L Ghost Rider
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 171
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2005, 06:00:43 PM »
Howdy all,
According to my research on Cody. Holster, late 1871,  pistol, early 1871 into early 1873, Belt picked up (not ordered) in St. Joseph iin 1871. If the belt was available in 1871 off the rack in St. Joseph, kinda indicates that it was available before that. Take care. 
Logged
Terry Lane, Nebraska Territory,
Nebraska's Official Hon. Col. Wm. F. "Buffalo Bill" Cody
Grand Army of the Frontier Department of the Missouri Chief of Scouts

Offline Steel Horse Bailey

  • Jeff "Steel Horse Bailey" - BP Warthog & C&B Shooter
  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 6164
  • A Master of the Sublime & Holy Order or the Soot
  • SASS #: 27463
  • NCOWS #: 1919
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2005, 11:56:39 AM »
Howdy, y'all!

Very interesting topic.  Thanks Terry, Nolan and all for the history lesson.
Logged
"May Your Powder always be Dry and Black; Your Smoke always White; and Your Flames Always Light the Way to Eternal Shooting Fulfillment !"

Offline Dakota Widowmaker

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 745
  • SASS# 65062
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2005, 11:42:35 PM »
There were actually several different ammo carriers for the Spencer during and shortly after the Civil War.

The most famous is the Blakeslee box.

Another was something that looks alot like this. (but, holding 20 56-50 rounds instead of modern rounds)

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712&id=0012765210448a&navCount=3&podId=0012765&parentId=cat601051&navAction=push&catalogCode=IF&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat601051&hasJS=true


As I understand it, there were cartridge loops that some folks put on their belts for buffalo hunters. (not quite as fancy as what they had in "Quigley Down Under")

I have seen photos reference where buttstock covers on Winchesters of the 70s and 80s  had loops stitched to them. (not from the factory, but, for those in the field)
Logged

Offline Dakota Widowmaker

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 745
  • SASS# 65062
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2005, 10:14:15 AM »
Back to the original question I had.

how are you supposed to carry shotshells while at a stage?
Logged

Offline Books OToole

  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 2681
  • Michael Tatham
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 91
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2005, 10:24:05 AM »
One option would be a hunting vest.  The 1897 Sears Roebuck catalog has hunting vests with shotgun loops attached.  The style is a little bit different from the vests used by modern bird hunters but it would be pretty easy to copy.

I wear a linen duster and  load out of my pockets.  I think it is faster than cartridge belts and it is certainly authentic.

Books
Logged
G.I.L.S.

K.V.C.
N.C.O.W.S. 2279 - Senator
Hiram's Rangers C-3
G.A.F. 415
S.F.T.A.

Offline Sod Buster

  • My Barn, My Rules
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2481
  • What happens in the Barn - Stays in the Barn
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2005, 10:28:33 AM »
Quote from: Dakota Widowmaker on November 30, 2005, 10:14:15 AM
Back to the original question I had.

how are you supposed to carry shotshells while at a stage?

I think your questions was already answered under another topic by River City John:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=5974.msg70429#msg70429

He said: "When I shoot shotgun, anymore I just line them upright in a row in my lower left vest pocket, or at times have used a Civil War cartridge box on my belt. I once even used a poke for my spare shotshells, a la' Jack Elam in that John Wayne movie."

I would concur.  Place them in your vest pocket.  You could also use the pockets of your frock or sack coat if wearing one.

Logged
SASS #49789L, NCOWS #2493, RATS #122, WARTHOGS, SBSS, SCORRS, STORM #287
ROII, NRA RSO, NRA Benefactor, VSSA Life

Offline Grizzle Bear

  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 683
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2005, 10:49:24 AM »
And anyway, if you have to reload a shotgun, you've probably lost the gunfight already.........

Grizzle Bear

Logged
Rob Brannon
General troublemaker and instigator
NCOWS Senator
NCOWS #357
http://www.ncows.org/KVC.htm
"I hereby swear and attest that I am willing to fight four wild Comanches at arm's length with the ammunition I am shooting in today's match."

Offline Quick Fire

  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 1023
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2005, 11:00:02 AM »
Amen, Grizzle Bear!
Logged
QuickFire                                 Lt. Colonel, Division of Nebraska                                                                                                                                                                          GRAND ARMY of the FRONTIER                                                         
NCOWS 1717

Offline Vance Beckett

  • Active citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2005, 06:46:20 PM »
Either that or yer just plain mean!   >:(
Logged
STORM #185

Offline Dakota Widowmaker

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 745
  • SASS# 65062
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cartridge Loops?
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2005, 08:26:02 PM »
Quote from: Sod Buster on November 30, 2005, 10:28:33 AM
Quote from: Dakota Widowmaker on November 30, 2005, 10:14:15 AM
Back to the original question I had.

how are you supposed to carry shotshells while at a stage?

I think your questions was already answered under another topic by River City John:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=5974.msg70429#msg70429

He said: "When I shoot shotgun, anymore I just line them upright in a row in my lower left vest pocket, or at times have used a Civil War cartridge box on my belt. I once even used a poke for my spare shotshells, a la' Jack Elam in that John Wayne movie."

I would concur.  Place them in your vest pocket.  You could also use the pockets of your frock or sack coat if wearing one.



Understood. (I got lost on which topic/thread this was answered)
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »
 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk

© 1995 - 2023 CAScity.com