Fast Draw Holsters -- What are they really?

[Lars]

One of the "Unapproved" items in the NCOWS By-Laws is "Fast Draw Holsters". These are clearly not Buskedaros drop holster rigs but, there is no statement of the differences are between "Fast Draw Holsters" and "Approved" holsters.

I went to the GAF Muster with intent to inquire about this of NCOWS officers present but two things kept that from happening. One reason was that noticed several of them were using holsters into which the revolver fitted no deeper than in the holster I was using, so, I seemed to be OK. The other reason was that I simply got so into the match that I simply missed my opportunities to ask.

So, I ask here. What is the NCOWS definition of a "Fast Draw Holster"?

Basically, what I saw many shooters using were holsters in which the cylinder and often backplate were covered by leather but, the hammer and trigger loop were not covered at all or only slightly so. In this regard, my holster appeared fully complient. Some holsters had "cutdowns" to allow the muzzle to clear without need to clear the leather covering the cylinder. I don't recall any holster tie-downs in use.

What I did not see was civilian holsters into which the revolver fits so deeply that hammer and trigger loop are completely covered, as is the case of my "trail carry" (sometimes meaning horseback) holsters that I often use at SASS shoots. These holsters were purchased to provide very secure carry without a flap. I also did not see holsters in which the cylinder is only about 1/2 covered by leather and the trigger loop is totally exposed.

I have no idea if any of the holsters had metal stiffeners.

Thanks,
Lars

[O.T. Buchannan]

Hey Lars, the holsters that I personally carry and use (for an 8 in. bbl. 1860 Conversion and 7 1/2 bbl 1872 Open Top) are circa 1865-75 era in style, and the ONLY thing visible on my holsters is the grip, and the tip of the hammer (but not enough to actually 'thumb' or grab the hammer).  This is the only type that I make and use.

As to the 'fast draw' holster, what I BELIEVE they mean is the Buscadero...perhaps it just needs to be clarified, but this is what I believe they are referring to..the style holster that most of us now recognize as the invention of hollywood.

I remember a reenactment we did a few years ago (not an NCOWS event) in which we were all on horseback, and I was carrying my traditional deep-set holsters and carrying a Walker Colt and an 1860 Colt.  Well, even when I dismounted 'rapidly, unexpectedly, and without warning' my pistols stayed in the holsters.  However, all of the other participants were wearing your typical Hollywood fast draw rigs.  They had to DELIBERATELY and continuously dismount to pick their revolvers up off of the ground....

[Lars]

OTB,

Here is the wording in the Unapproved List that causes me to think that "fast draw holsters" are not Buscadero rigs. Holsters are not mentioned on the Approved List.

----From the Unapproved List----
Buscadero (slotted belt) gun rigs
No fast draw holsters

I remain confussed. Perhaps you are correct and there is need for clairification here.

Lars

[Advertising]

[Derby Younger]

John:

In almost ten years of shooting SASS events, I have never seen a pistol fall out of a holster brassing or moving to, in or off a stage.

Have seen shooters miss returning the pistol to the holster or loosing one hooking on a prop.

Not saying it couldn't happen but, in my opinion, it's doesn't rise to the safety concern level.

[Lars]

Thanks for the clairifications!!

I happen to agree with Derby Young about revolvers falling from holsters. That means a very loose holster in my experience, or a gun not fully placed in the holster -- the former is generally a cheap holster and the latter is just carelessness. I don't see very many "grabby" props any more. I too do not see this as an actual safety issue.

The holster I used at GAF Muster holds the gun quite securely, with the leather completely covering the cylinder and much of the hammer. However, the trigger loop is totally exposed. It is definitely NOT a fast draw holster -- my Rugers and Remington New Armies fit snuggly in it. For actual security, it holds my Rugers as snuggly as do the "trail carry" holsters I mentioned earlier -- the essential difference is the degree of physical protection afforded the gun from scratches and from being "snatched" from the holster by a branch, etc. Good hammer loops actually used pretty much eleminate the "snatching".

In any case, anyone brassing, etc. with out the hammer loop hooked over the hammer is sorta of skipping one very usefull safety measure. Given that holster leg ties are no-nos for NCOWS, there is even less reason for a gun to ever drop from a holster.

Lars

[O.T. Buchannan]

Hey Lars, none of my holsters has a hammer loop........

[Lars]

Joss,

Does that mean that NCOWS does/will deny a very simple, nonintrusive and effective safety device simply because it appears to be a Hollywood thing?

Actually, so long as one has holsters in which one's revolvers fit rather snuggly, some rather drastic moves are needed before the guns will fall out. Something more like what OT described on horseback.

Lars

[Delmonico]

I would put them in the same class as modern shooting glasses and hearing protection, neither which is PC. 

[Lars]

Seems like a rational and usefull category for hammer loops, especially since their only role is safety.

I would wonder which might actually be safer on the firing line, a deep holster that requires some real care and/or skill when drawing the revolver or more "open top" holsters that allow easy and secure grasping of the gun? After watching the care and efforts need to draw a revolver from a military flap-style holster by folks shooting at the GAF Muster, I was impressed with the skill and care needed.

Lars

[Wymore Wrangler]

I guess I'm one of those one in a million folks, I have seen a pistol slip out of a holster while a lady was brassing, we are the only two that saw it, and she just quietly put it away with a very embarrassed face....

[Black River Smith]

Lars

Packing Iron by Zon.  Very good reference book for original styled and period identified holsters and belts.  Also  The Peacemaker by RL Wilson,  most everything before Chapter 10

Would most agree that we have looked at or used it as a guide.  I know not all but a good many.

Fast draw by history are those used in the 50's/60 by movies and tv. Low cut side good portion of cylinder showing and full trigger.  Maybe even scoop front.  Anything steel reinforced and or anything that always the cylinder to be rotated while revolver is still seated in said holster.  Basically anything you see in the older 50's cowboy series where fast draw or buscadero.  My general guide and logic.

Editted:  Sorry just read through the complete posting, realizing I just repeated what was already expressed by Joss.

Black River Smith

[Black River Smith]

Lars,

General question to help us understand something.

When did you move to this country?  What was your first, main and then continued exposure to the history of the American West?

Saw in the Why you like NCOWS you stated reading books not in English and not seeing a lot of TV.  That is the reason for the questions.


Black River Smith

[Mogorilla]

I am with Wymore on this.  I have seen several pistols fall from holsters (4 or 5 in the last 10 years) all were buscadero rigs and the all but one were moving to squat or sit.  On was goin up a set of stairs and took two at once and out came the pistol.  I have a buscadero, my first leather project, but have lost too much weight and can no longer wear the belt.  I prefer a tight fighting slim jim.  One a different note, has anyone ever thought of making a holster from rawhide, and then leather covering it?  It would be stiff like the metal lined varieties, but cheaper and easily done by amateur leather workers.  May have to look into it.  (just a thought, not for use in competitions.)

[Delmonico]

I've got a tight fitting Slim Jim I wear at work, I put a hammer thong on it cause it wanted to slip out once in a while.   It's embarising if it falls on a customers toes.

[RRio]

Are we talking about one like this?



Because the open trigger guard would be the only thing that would qualify this one. It is used in Cowboy Fast Draw.

Holsters where more than 1/2 the cylinder is exposed, trigger guard cutaway and exposed, whether buscadero or not.

[Delmonico]

It's also a drop loop.

[Black River Smith]

Rio don't you answer your own statement, when you say, it is used in Cowboy Fast Draw?

It is cut for easy access, it is dropped to arms length or near so, it is very rigid(not a firm criteria, many slim jims are heavy leather/stiff) and it is canted or angle forward.

Correct or not.  And its sole purpose is for fast removal of revolver.  Would you use them in the woods (other than being reallly nice/fancy looking) or on a horse or sit in a chair or would they secure the revolver from being pulled or knocked loose?

Black River Smith

[Lars]

Lars,

General question to help us understand something.

When did you move to this country?  What was your first, main and then continued exposure to the history of the American West?

Saw in the Why you like NCOWS you state reading books not in English and not see a lot of TV.  That is the reason for the questions.

Black River Smith

I was born in this country and grew up with immigrants, with their native languages. I am basically a "native born foreigner". Thanks to the way I grew up, I was and am totally determined to make as full a use as possible of my languages other than English.

My first real exposure to American West and its history was one summer in Sheridan, WY in the 1960s, which included the Little Big Horn and lots of other places. It has been fairly extensive in recent decades, in part because of many books written in Swedish about the Swedish and Swedish-speaking Finns that came to America. We wrote one article based on such sources, it is in The Shootist.

My current TV broke in 1999. It is now sitting there with a nice Chinese cloth covering it. It present function is to prevent a working TV from taking its place -- it is functioning perfectly.

Lars

[Black River Smith]

Lars,

Did not mean to insult or embarass you by the questions and hope I have not.

Thanks, helps me to understand where your questions come from.

OK, you do have limited exposure.  But the books listed will be very helpful to your research.  As you stated elsewhere you and your wife are researching clothing.

I myself grow up watching all those cowboys and westerns on TV through the 60's.  I thought I know what a period holster was shaped like when I first started gathering in the later 70's.  Boy was I wrong back then.  The second holster I made was a John Wayne cut and my nickle .45 - 4 3/4" looked really good in it.  But through researching the books and other sources, I found out what was period correct and what I liked and what I now feel comfortable with.

Black River Smith

[Major Matt Lewis]

OK,

For my educational betterment only because I personally use Miller-Filchet holsters from Trailrider that are more than NCOWS legal, but would an Evil Roy Rig or a Long Hunter Rig be something that is considered a "Fast Draw" holster?