2400 in 44-40?

[PJ Hardtack]

Anyone has experience with 2400 in the 44-40? Specifically with 200 gr LRNFPs.

I've been shooting 12 grs of it with 240 LRNFPs in my B-92 using .44 Spl. brass for years and the rifle dotes on it.

[Trailrider]

The Lyman 49th Edition Handbook shows loads using 2400 for both rifles and pistols, both with jacketed and cast bullets, primarily in the 200 gr range. If you are going to use this powder for hunting, and keep the recommended loads for appropriate strength guns, it will probably be fine. As 2400 is fairly slow-burning, I would NOT reduce the loads below the minimums shown, and probably would want to keep the loads just above the minimums. For SASS loads, there are better choices. IMHO, Hodgdon's UNIVERSAL and Unique are good choices, though for really reduced loads Trail Boss is a good choice, though I would stay at the middle loads rather than lighter ones.

[PJ Hardtack]

The only specific reference I have re: loading 44-40 with 2400 is from an old copy of "Cartridges of the World":

- 140 gr/30 grs for 2230 fps
- 200 gr/25 grs for 1850 fps

These are "rifle only" loads, but I find them over the top, particularly when I have a reference for .44 Spl. loads with 2400 recommending 10.2 to 11.3 with 246 gr bullets. As I mentioned, I've been loading 12 grs with 240 gr in .44 Spl. for years with no ill effects to rifle or brass.

I've fired these loads in my .44 mag Vaqueros and 4" M29 as well, and they do get your attention.

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[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

The only specific reference I have re: loading 44-40 with 2400 is from an old copy of "Cartridges of the World":

- 140 gr/30 grs for 2230 fps
- 200 gr/25 grs for 1850 fps

These are "rifle only" loads, but I find them over the top, particularly when I have a reference for .44 Spl. loads with 2400 recommending 10.2 to 11.3 with 246 gr bullets. As I mentioned, I've been loading 12 grs with 240 gr in .44 Spl. for years with no ill effects to rifle or brass.

I've fired these loads in my .44 mag Vaqueros and 4" M29 as well, and they do get your attention.

I've seen older loads for m92s only, that resulted in case failure after a couple of loads. WAY TOO HOT!

Find recent data based on proper pressure data.

[PJ Hardtack]

I regard the loads I quoted from COTW as ridiculous.

I will however, try 12 grs of 2400 with both 200 and 240 gr bullets. These were recent loads quoted on lever action rifle forums.

[Yeso Bill]

In Dave Scovill's LOADING THE PEACEMAKER, Colts Model P, the only loads he lists for 2400 are:

Nosler 200 gr. HP with 15.5 gr. at 936 fps. with 3" group.
RCBS 200 gr. FN    "    15.5       " 1061 with a 1.5" group
RCBS 200 gr. FN    "    16.5       " 1111 with a 2" group
MG 44 / 200          "    15.5       " 980 with a 3" group
Lyman 427098      "     15.5       " 1065 -1096  group size not stated
RHV 230gr. SWC   "     15.5       " 1002 with a 2" group.   

His best was 1" using 9.5 gr. of UN Clays at 1091 fps.

[PJ Hardtack]

Just got back from the range shooting 13 grs/2400 in my '66, Henry and "1 of 1,000" Uberti '73. The triskaidekaphobics are asking - "Why thirteen grains?"
Well, it wasn't because Hallowe'en is upon us. I have an RCBS Li'll Dandy powder measure that throws 13 grs of 2400 accurately and consistently with one of it's rotors. That is within the 12.5 to 15.5 gr. range I read about on a forum.

All the rifles liked it, particularly the '73, grouping 5 rds off hand into 1-1/2". That might be a function of the extra 2" of barrel length. The load has a little more 'snap' to it than my usual load of 6/Red Dot with the same 200 gr RNFP. Smacking the 100m gong with all the rifles using this load was child's play.

There was the usual unburned powder residue in the barrel associated with 2400, but I'm used to that from the years I've shot 5744 in 45-70 and 50-70.

[D-Hansen]

I have been using A2400 in the 44-40 with 200 LRNFP bullets for about 3 years.  I have been loading for a Marlin 1894 made in 1895, a Uberti 1866 and a 1873 Winchester from 1883.  All three like different loads.  Here is some information I can share.  I find that at below 13gr of A2400 I have more un-burned kernels  of the powder in the chamber and barrel.  13gr with a .427" bullet in the 1866 will get me around 1,000 fps.  18.5 gr of A2400 in the Marlin 1894 with a .430" bullet will get me about 1300 - 1550 fps.  15gr of A2400 is about as high as a care to go in the 1866 or the 1873.  I have had 13gr loads of A2400 with .430" bullets not clear the 24" barrel of the 1866 so I have stopped using the 13gr loads with the large diameter bullet in that rifle.  

D-Hansen

[D-Hansen]

If interested I have more load and velocity data that I have recorded.  I have also been using polyethylene shot buffer in some of the loads for the old Marlin rifle for the reason of a very over sized groove diameter in that rifle.  The shot buffer increased velocity, increased pressure, reduced standard deviation and improved accuracy in that rifle.  I would not recommend the shot buffer in rifles that do not need it, like my Uberti which has a more normal .421" bore and .428" groove.  I use the word normal loosely as 44-40 dimensions are all over the spectrum.    I have also been using Swiss BP and enjoy the very consistent 1300 fps  that 35.2 gr of Swiss produces.   All these have been with 200gr Lead round nose flat tip bullets with large meplat.

D-Hansen

[w44wcf]

 
Subsequent ALLIANT manuals carried the same information up until a few years ago.

D Hansen,
Interesting information. Those are some neat vintage rifles you have.  

w44wcf

[D-Hansen]

Good Morning John,   The black powder success was due to all the great information that you provided.  I would not have achieved the performance   levels with out your help.  Your information on different powders and recommendations to bullet moulds were very helpful.  Information on the 44-40 and A2400 loads were not easy to find in printed material that was new enough to trust.  Lots of older data with charge weights that were suspiciously high.   I have found that neck tension is important to keep an eye on, and because of this I keep the 44-40 brass separated for each rifle.   I can keep all the revolver stuff together.   I see large variations in neck diameter from rifle to rifle.   I'm sure if I owed several Uberti rifles they would all be very consistent.    But with four vintage rifles in 44-40, two 1873 Winchesters and two 1894 Marlins  The bores and groove diameters are different.   In just a 15 year span with Marlin `1894 made in 1895 bore=.421" and groove=.441"  vs.  Marlin 1894 made in 1911 bore=.419" and groove .425"    The Winchesters were bore=.424" and groove=.430"   

D-Hansen

[PJ Hardtack]

Thanks for all the data, gentlemen!

Right now in Kanuckistan, we are suffering a shortage of pistol powders generally, and 8 lb kegs are unheard of. I recently scored 2 lbs each of Red Dot, Green Dot and TiteGroup, all the dealer had. No promises of future deliveries. The RD and GD are earmarked for my .45 ACP loads.
People are hoarding powder and primers like mad, buying up what is available and swapping amongst themselves.

I happened to have 1-1/2 lbs of 2400 on hand, so I was curious about it's use in 44-40. I have used it in .44 Spl. for years where it is my favourite powder in my Browning '92.

I find it interesting that 13 grs seemed to be a problematic load in the rifle mentioned. I certainly had no issues in my repros, but I did feel a little more powder would be beneficial; almost like the rifles were talking to me.
The next largest rotor I have for my L'll Dandy measure throws 13.6 grs of 2400, according to RCBS. I'm going to try it. My experience with these rotors tells me that I'm going to get a little more than that, probably 13.8- 14 grs. If nothing else, it might be a little more clean burning.

In the May 2001 issue of "Rifle" magazine, Brian Pearce reviews the Uberti henry. He published these  loads:

- 9.5 Univeral Clays for 1345 fps
- 8.5 Unique for 1,211
- 7.0 231 for 1,104
- 6 Red Dot for 1,045

He got the best accuracy with Universal Clays. I had read so much about the weakness of toggle link actions that I tried the Red Dot load, liked it and stuck with it. I think that the modern toggle links are stronger than we give them credit for.

[D-Hansen]

Just to clarify the information on the 13gr load of A2400.  My problem was a bad combination of components on my part.  The 13gr was too light to push the .430" diameter bullet the full 24" of the barrel that has a .428" groove diameter and a bore diameter of .421"  it would lodge about 1 or 2 inches from the muzzle end.  Happened twice in a group of 50 and I decided not to load that combination for that rifle again.    I was paying attention and knew it had happened, hate to have had someone else shooting the rifle and cause damage, or worse any bodily harm.   I think 13gr A2400 with a properly sized bullet would be fine, but it is on the light side.

D-Hansen

[PJ Hardtack]

Turns out that I was already using the #17 RCBS rotor that gave me 13.1-13.2 grs of 2400.  So I changed it to the #10. Two dumps give a consistent 15.5 grs of 2400.
I'm going to give that a go and I'll post the results. They won't include velocity as I gave away my ancient chronograph. I only used it twice in the time I had it - to learn that the ammo companies lie and that the reloading manuals aren't much better.