How do you keep the holster from moving when drawing?

[Lead Waster]

OK, a few questions. As background, I bought a pair of Triple K holsters and the matching belt. Good starter kit I think.

Anyway, I finally got one of my New Vaqueros and had to try it in the holster.

Well, OK, now when I shoot USPSA, my gun is in a kydex bladetech holster locked onto a stiff duty belt. It does not move. It doesn't move along the belt, so I can take the belt on and off and it's in the same spot, and it doesn't budge when I draw the gun. No vertical movement because it's clipped onto the belt.

Well, with the leather holster "Cheyenne" style from Triple K, the holsters not only slide along the belt, but also when I draw (without the leg ties tying it to my leg) the holster moves vertically before the bottom of the belt stops the bottom of the holster loop and the gun finally comes clear. Hmmm... certainly different than my plastic USPSA stuff!

OK, so .... how do you stop the holster from;

1) Sliding along the belt side to side?
2) (and more importantly) sliding up as you draw the gun?

The belt and holster are pretty basic, and neither are "broken in" so the holster holds the gun snuggly, which I'm guessing makes matters worse for vertical movement.

Would taping/gluing some grippy suede to the back of the holster help it from rising? Should I use some double sided tape/velcro to keep it in place along the belt?

The setup is NOT buscedero, which I suppose would solve everything. Oh, and are you "allowed" to use the leg tie in a CAS match?

Thanks from a newbie! I hope this question helps other newbs as well!

LW

[Major 2]

The simplest way, I believe I read Red Cent uses... get some Chicago Screws , I'd use a pair per holster.  If I were fixing someone's
Rig for that issue.
I'd run them in from the back side and through the belt , I would think you would not see these from the outside.

I make my own and the Holster is snug fit over the belt , it dues not rise and is a some what a bear to slide along... works well for me.

[Cliff Fendley]

If you don't want it to move fasten as Major said.

Also to keep it from moving upward you can fasten a tab to the skirt so it locks under the belt.

I dont do either. I wear my belt snug and don't notice much of a problem with mine. I slide mine to the side over the cartridges when I'm sitting or bending over. When I walk up to the line to shoot I slide them into position for shooting. I'm not a real competitive shooter so this probably wont work for the gamers.

The very reason mexican loop holsters were invented is so they WILL move around the belt. With the large loop they can slide over cartridges and be re positioned to access cartridges.

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[Trailrider]

Basically, what the others have said. I would add this: If you wear the gun belt around the outside of your pants belt, you can buy or make some loops (keepers) that go over both belts, keeping the gun belt from moving much upward. This was an old trick the late, great Bill Jordan used. The other thing to look at is how snug your holster is around the gun. I'm NOT advocating the gun fit loosely in the holster, but it shouldn't be trapped in their either. You might need to wet-fit the holster(s) to the gun(s).

[Lead Waster]

Thanks for the tips! My USPSA belt has an inner velcro belt that goes through the belt loops, then the outer belt (that holds the mag pouches and holster) is lined with velcro and sticks to the inner belt, everything is kept in place!

However, I thought that in theory, we weren't supposed to wear normal belts (well, in belt loops) as part of the spirit of the game. And I had read that the holster belt was supposed to sit lower than where a normal belt should be? I mean, I guess for absolute purists that's how you'd wear stuff.

I do like the idea of some sort of tab or screw keeping the holster in place on the belt. I might try and make a "belt" of that sticky rubber (the stuff you put under a rug to keep it from slipping) to lock the belt onto my pants to keep the belt itself from rising up.

All great ideas, thanks! I guess these are the tips and tricks that you don't get until you start participating. I mean, I'd have never thought about this if I hadn't just tried on the leathers and practice drawing!

[harleydavis]

Not to be a smart*** but just grab hold of the durned thing with your other hand. This aint fast draw stuff!!!! Dont worry about speed, just learn to do it SAFELY. Frankly, back in the day, your belt woulda been worn higher than todays belts up around your natural waist. Try sitting on a horse with your gun belt around your modern belt area or worse yet, where the modern buscadaro rigs sit. In truth, if you are right handed, it sits better over close to your left side but that becomes a cross draw and for a new shooter, maybe not a good idea. then again, trying to pull a long barreled revolver with right hand from right hip aint so easy neither!! Just my couple of pennies on the table.

[Cliff Fendley]

harleydavis I like your way of thinking. Experience the game like it would have really been in the old west. A quality holster and belt made and worn historically accurate just required a quick little snatch and the gun draws without pulling up the belt or holster.

and yes, if you look at period photos those skinny cowboys wore their gun belts very high and many times the gun in a crossdraw position. Even though the holsters were made straight hang many Slim Jims have a tenency to hand like a crossdraw anyway and Mexican loop holsters with their large loops allowed it to be positioned however it was convenient. If your riding or sitting it is certainly much better in the crossdraw position.

[harleydavis]

Thank you Cliff. Here's another thing I love to get fellers to consider. With a low slung, leg tied holster, where does your revovler sit when on horseback? A lot of new folks dont realize that the majority of fellers in the day were simply range hands, not pistoleers. Revolver will sit in such manner that it will fall out unless you have a strap around the hammer. Now, with that pistol pulled up in the crossdraw position, it dont fall out and you could actual get at the thing ifn ya needed it.

However, in todays CAS, many of the things that were common 100+ years ago just arent considered safe. Find an experienced shooter, have him/her show you the safest method of getting your revolver into action. What works for one, may not work for another.

[Pettifogger]

Not to be a smart*** but just grab hold of the durned thing with your other hand. This aint fast draw stuff!!!! Dont worry about speed, just learn to do it SAFELY. Frankly, back in the day, your belt woulda been worn higher than todays belts up around your natural waist. Try sitting on a horse with your gun belt around your modern belt area or worse yet, where the modern buscadaro rigs sit. In truth, if you are right handed, it sits better over close to your left side but that becomes a cross draw and for a new shooter, maybe not a good idea. then again, trying to pull a long barreled revolver with right hand from right hip aint so easy neither!! Just my couple of pennies on the table.

Not a smart thing to do.  If there is an AD you will shoot yourself.

[harleydavis]

If there is an AD you will shoot yourself.

True but if there is an AD with revolver in holster, you will shoot yourself in the leg. IMHO, holding the holster with one hand to pull the revolver would be better than having the holster riding upwards with revolver still in it. AD is never good which is why I would suggest to anyone that speed with a loaded weapon is not a good combination in any circumstance.

[Pettifogger]

Getting back to the OP's original question, I looked at the Triple K site and it looks like the holsters are single layer, non-lined holsters.  Here is what I would do if they were mine.  If the guns are sticking in the holsters I would fill the kitchen sink with warm water.  Then hold the holster so the gun holding part is facing down and put it in the water for 10 or 15 seconds.  Take your guns and wrap them in Sarah wrap or put them in a plastic bag and wrap the bag tightly around the gun.  Put the guns in the holsters and let them sit overnight.  This should mold the holsters to the guns and cure 90+ percent of the sticking problems.  Then get the Chicago screws and punch or drill holes in the belt and holster and anchor them.   (You can get them at ACE hardware.  Modern terminology is to call them binding posts.)

[rickk]

What Cliff says will work. I believe they are called "Brakes".  They can be installed with a couple of Chicago Screws.

[Lead Waster]

OK cool. I've not broken in the holsters to the guns yet. Triple-K includes instructions to do something similar, though I got the holsters before the guns (California...takes a long time to get the guns).

As for drawing, I'd been taught the modern 4 step draw, where you put the non-shooting hand on your belly while grasping the grip with the shooting hand, then pull the gun out and rotate it out, then the hands meet in the center of your body, then you push out the gun (OK, it varies from 4-6 steps, depending on when you pull the trigger).

It looks scrunched up and a bit rigid, but it's how to draw the pistol whithout sweeping your support hand. But again, the IPSC/USPSA kydex holsters just stay in place and retain the gun by pinching just the front of the trigger guard.

So I'm used to NOT holding the holster with my support hand to pull the gun out.

I'll look into the chicago screws, thanks!

OK, so ... how do you make a clean hole through holster/belt leather?

[Trailrider]

Hole in the belt? For regular Chicago screwposts, use a 3/16" leather punch or drill the hole.  Note: So far as an AD in the holster is concerned, if your gun is properly loaded, i.e., with the hammer down on an empty chamber, and you keep your thumb OFF of the hammer spur, the ONLY way you can have an AD is...if somebody hits you with a flame thrower!    Also, keep your finger OFF of the trigger until the gun is pointed downrange!

[Pancho Peacemaker]

Ditch the Triple K.  Yes it is an inexpensive starter kit, but it is thin, unlined leather.

Either have a good leather maker (like Cliff) or go to a reputable saddlery shop and get decent leather made.

I swear by El Paso Saddlery. Ive been using their holsters for a variety of needs for over 20 years.   For CAS, I have Mexican loop and Slim Jim (lined) holsters made by them. No "ride up" as you see with Triple K. 

[WaddWatsonEllis]

However, in todays CAS, many of the things that were common 100+ years ago just arent considered safe. Find an experienced shooter, have him/her show you the safest method of getting your revolver into action. What works for one, may not work for another.

For Instance W.B. Hicock would not be allowed on a SASS controlled site because he favored 'double butt forward rigs' (which seems to be prohibited in SASS.)

All this and the 170 degree rule protects the ROs: the amount of available ROs would probably significantly decrease once those laws were repealed and even on RO was injured ... people don't want to get hurt on their weekend shoot: just have fun ...

And decreased ROs = decreased available Range Time ....

[Cliff Fendley]

I never noticed lined or unlined having much effect. Overall thickness/stiffness and fit matter more. Some people want them tighter and some loose depending on application.

Yes it is important to start with quality leather but the maker of the product and their process effects the outcome too.

Example, I use the exact same leather as El Paso saddlery, I live within 20 miles of the warehouse and it comes right off the same pallets as being shipped to El Paso, Galco and others. A holster can be made with that leather to be somewhat supple feeling like an original old west holster would have been or I can make a single layer holster somewhat stiffer if I wet mold it either during or before dying or oiling. Notice the unlined Galco carry holsters made from the exact same leather are molded and stiff yet single layer. That leather was not that stiff when it was shipped to them, I promise you.

Lined holsters are preferred by competitive shooters but the stiffness provided by the layered holsters are more beneficial to holding there shape and allowing the easy draw more than the smooth lining. I use A grade pasted back leather on my unlined gear so the flesh side is smooth anyway. The big advantage of double thick stiff as a board competition holsters is once they are molded you can just about run over them with a truck and not loose their shape.

All holsters require a breaking in period but most custom makers do a minimum of some basic molding to try to accommodate what the shooter wants.

Store bought leather is just that, mass produced and it's going to be up to you to do any molding, provided the leather and design is workable.

[Lead Waster]

Thanks for the replies. I can't just ditch the triple-k stuff, I just bought it. I'll play the "Well, a poor cowboy uses what he has" and go with that. The Chicago screw idea seems reasonable.

I know it takes a few matches before things come together and newbies like me who just jump into it without going to observe a match (I have twin 5 year olds, I don't have time to spare if I'm not participating!) need some "figuring out" time!

[Angel_Eyes]

I have un-picked single thickness holsters and added a lining before now and of course added a back seam fillet to allow more room for the pistol.
On some I have glued in a shaped aluminium stiffener for the more competitive owner, between layers.
So, there is no real need to ditch your new leather, just find a competent leather smith.

[Stu Kettle]

Thanks for the replies. I can't just ditch the triple-k stuff, I just bought it. I'll play the "Well, a poor cowboy uses what he has" and go with that. The Chicago screw idea seems reasonable.

I started with triple-K holsters & still use one of them. The other got too floppy after several years & wouldn't stay open enough to reholster.

A poor cowby wouldn't even have to but Chicago screws - I use waxed Cotten thread.