2 band snider sword bayonet

[redbadge]

Hello, i was wondering if somebody on this forum might be able to help give me some info on a bayonet i recently came across. Its a 2 band snider sword bayonet that i was told belonged to the 90th Winnipeg Rifles (North West rebellion period) Its marked 90 on the bottom end of the handle and then 260

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Google "YATAGAN", or yataghan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yatagan

I was going to hold back and wait for Rattlesnake Jack (Grant R) to answer, but I couldn't restrain myself from googling. Low & behold, I found a link where he did provide info on this question;

http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/8667/yataghan-bayonet-markings-pics-added#.UUnWfFcryls

[redbadge]

Thanks Sir Charles! Thats great info. Iv been trying to get Rattle Snake Jack to take a look at this, but wasnt sure how to reach him. Is there a way you might be able to get him to take a look on this forum? Thanks

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[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

He's usually on here, but he has a busy practice.  You might try a personal message.

[RattlesnakeJack]

redbadge:

Sorry for the delay in checking in ..... and not yet having responded to your direct communication.  (By the way, Sir Charles .... I no longer have a "busy practice", having "quit" a couple of years ago .... but I seem to be busier than ever, what with grandchildren and such!)

In the absence of specific Canadian ownership markings (and, to my knowledge, Canadian bayonets were not usually ownership marked throughout most of the Snider-Enfield period) it is quite possible that the numbers stamped on your bayonet signify issue to the 90th Battalion (Winnipeg Rifles).  The regulations called for each "stand of arms" (rifle and associated accoutrements - bayonet, scabbard, cartridge box) to be marked with the Battalion number and the "stand number" for that set ..... what might more commonly be called a "rack number" nowadays.

Although it is clear from period photographs that Canadian Militia Rifles Battalions were not universally armed with the "correct" Short Rifle, apparently that is what was issued to the 90th Battalion .... so this is, indeed, the correct pattern of bayonet for the 90th.  Here is a  period studio portrait of two Riflemen of the 90th Battalion, Winnipeg Rifles - not the best quality image, but their Short Rifles and yataghan bayonets are easily recognizable -

[pony express]

A bit ot.....I see tha one has trousers outside his boots, and one inside.

[RattlesnakeJack]

A bit ot.....I see tha one has trousers outside his boots, and one inside.

No, actually one is wearing his leather gaiters and the the other isn't ....   



I am not aware of the exact provenance of this photo, but they are sufficiently scruffy and rumpled looking - much more so than one would expect for a studio portrait - that I strongly suspect they got this taken after returning from service during the 1885 Rebellion, wanting that "trail worn" look ......

The 90th had only been formed in late 1883, and that was their first active service campaign .... during which they earned their "nickname" (The Little Black Devils) and, following from that, both their regimental symbol and their regimental motto (Hosti Acie Nominati - Named by the Enemy in Battle).  Following the Battle of Fish Creek (24 April 1885) a captured Métis asked, "The red coats we know, but who are those little black devils?" - referring to the unfamiliar appearance of their rifle green uniforms (so dark that they can appear black) and their typical Rifles skirmishing tactics of keeping down and taking full advantage of cover ....

[GunClick Rick]

I want one

[Blair]

G C Rick,

What is it that you "want one" of?
Perhaps, I can offer some assistance in locating what it is you want, if I knew what that was?
  Blair

[pony express]

Blair, I think GC Rick wants one of everything.

Jack, now that I look closer, I can see that those are gaiters, at first glance they just looked like boots.

[GunClick Rick]

One of them bayonets!

[RattlesnakeJack]

They are a very impressive bayonet -



(As you can possibly deduce from the scale of my Snider-Enfield Short Rifle and yataghan bayonet, I am just a mite bigger than those 19th century lads shown above ....    )

[redbadge]

Thats great Rattle Snake Jack!   Just the answer i was looking for.  And that picture is a great find, thanks!  Iv always had an interest in the Riel Rebellion, and would like to find a means of collecting more relics from this time period. Did you have your uniforms custom made??  There really cool!  

This i kind of off topic alittle but i also recently found an 1887 Martini Henry. Ill post some pics, its in great shape!  

[RattlesnakeJack]

redbadge:

Are you in Canada, by any chance?  Whether you are or not, if you have an interest in military matters of the Victorian Era, we need to recruit you into the Grand Army of the Frontier, if you aren't already a member!  Visit "The Barracks" forum here in Cas City and check it out ....

Yes, I have had my uniforms made for me (.... mainly in India, actually ....)   The one you see above is the 2nd Battalion, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada .... headquartered in Toronto.  They were one of the units mobilized for the North West Rebellion, forming part of Colonel Otter's Battleford Relief Column.  In this period lithograph of the Battle of Cut Knife Hill, it is the QOR deploying along the brow of the hill on the left -

[pony express]

Did you have your uniforms custom made??  There really cool! 

This i kind of off topic alittle but i also recently found an 1887 Martini Henry. Ill post some pics, its in great shape! 

Considering Rattlesnake Jack's size, I doubt if he gets many of his clothes off the shelf.

Jack: Where in india are you getting your uniforms? I ask because I haven't heard much good about some of the makers there. Replicators is the one that comes to mind. But your uniforms all seem to be very good quality.

[Blair]

G C Rick,

The Winchester Sutler, may have them. I looked on their web site and they were not listed. ?
As an alternative I would suggest doing a net search using "Enfield Sword Bayonet". There are several Sutlers that offer them. (about $165.00)
They are being new made in India, and last I heard were very good copies. (I have not seen one yet)
  Blair

[GunClick Rick]

They are a very impressive bayonet -



(As you can possibly deduce from the scale of my Snider-Enfield Short Rifle and yataghan bayonet, I am just a mite bigger than those 19th century lads shown above ....    )

Lookin dang good right there!!! Out here they would use that knife for pig huntin..SOLDIER, WATCH THAT KNIFE!

[pony express]

They may also have them at IMA, part of the stash they got from Nepal. I don't have any British rifles from that period yet, but I do have a French Gras, the Gras bayonet isn't quite as impressive, but the Chasspot bayonet will fit also, it's very much like the Enfield. They usually have some of those on Gunbroker, at about the same prices Blair mentioned.

[Blair]

G C Rick,

One of my reasons for taking so long to reply to your "I want one" wish list, is because I didn't take you seriously.
So, I thought it was best to let you work for what you wanted, and offered suggestions for you to look them up, on your time, instead.
  Blair

[RattlesnakeJack]

Jack: Where in india are you getting your uniforms? I ask because I haven't heard much good about some of the makers there. Replicators is the one that comes to mind. But your uniforms all seem to be very good quality.

Actually, I have gotten pretty much everything from Replicaters (as they spell it).  I don't really have any complaints .... although you have to be as careful as possible to describe precisely what you want in detail (if it is not a standard, "stock" item they make regularly) or they may make assumptions without clarifying things ..... particularly if you have them working from pictures of what you want, and something isn't entirely clear in the pictures. 

The only real problem I have had in that regard is my Scottish-pattern field frock, which I had them make up based largely on this composite image of figures from Osprey Men-At-Arms volumes, showing a Sergeant of the Black Watch on the left and an officer of the King's Own Scottish Borderers on the right -

[

I failed to notice that in both images only a single flap-covered skirt pocket is visible, on the right side of the frock (i.e. left side of each image).  Of course, that is simply because the artist in each case chanced to show it that way - only because the Sergeant's ammunition pouch on his left side is covering it and because the officer is somewhat turned away.  However, they noticed it .... and my frock came with only a single skirt pocket on the right side.  When I pointed out the error, they asked me to take very careful and exact measurements of the pocket flap on the frock, so they could make a second matching flap and send it to me to sew onto the frock.  That was certainly acceptable to me, and is what ended up being done.  There is no pocket under the flap, of course, but I don't really use the existing pocket anyway, as putting anything of any bulk into it just causes an unsightly bulge .... and also because if the frock is worn with field equipment such pockets are not really accessible ..... i.e. blocked by the holster and ammunition pouch of an officer's kit, and by the ammunition pouches of an Other Rank -

This is actually my "batman" Roger, whom many of you have met, wearing the frock at one of the Musters  (.... he is not quite as big as I am, so it doesn't fit him particularly well .....)