Shooting FFFG in .45 LC

[Doug.38PR]

I loaded my first cleanshot/Pioneer FFFG powder in .45 LC tonight.  22 grains behind a 200 lead bullet.  Is it just me or does this smoke powder have more......bass to it than smokeless ...tenor loads?   

The gunshot sounded deeper and not as high pitched.   I was impressed with the smoke it produced out of my Ruger new Vaquero.   Started to shoot it in my Uberti Schofield but thought better of it as it was my first try loading such powder in cartridges (using data from pioneer's site) and the Vaquero is a little sturdier than the Uberti. 

[OD#3]

Yes, blackpowder (and subs) will have a deeper "boom" report, while smokeless loads tend to "crack".  I don't much like the subs, because they are more corrosive than true blackpowder.  But the real stuff is harder to come by; most LGS's don't stock it due to the storage requirements.  I wonder about that 22 grain load being high enough, though.  I don't know how bulky cleanshot/Pioneer powder is compared to blackpowder, but you don't want any airspace between powder and bullet with either blackpowder or the subs.  Supposedly, dangerous pressure spikes can occur in this situation and wreck the firearms.  22 grains is far from a full load; it may not be full enough.  But as long as there is no airspace, then I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it in your Schofield replica.  I routinely shoot a compressed load of 40 grains FFF Goex under a 255 grain bullet.  Recoil is high--as is velocity (over 1,000 fps usually), but pressures are lower than with any comparable-performing smokeless load.

[Doug.38PR]

http://www.americanpioneerpowder.com/loading.html   I got my loading data (22 grains) straight from the horses mouth at Pioneers own website.  See for yourself.   That FFF Goex does sound interesting though

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[pony express]

If that's 22 grains by weight, it would be about right, since most of the BP subs aren't as dense as BP.

[Cliff Fendley]

But real BP in it and you can really enjoy the "boom".

Plus the fire and sparks that go with it.

[OD#3]

http://www.americanpioneerpowder.com/loading.html   I got my loading data (22 grains) straight from the horses mouth at Pioneers own website.  See for yourself.

Ah, yes.  I see that they list that load by weight.  So volumetrically, I'm sure its fine.  Where I live, I've found only one place that will carry real BP, and even that is 45 minutes away.   Up til now, I haven't been willing to fork over $300-$400 for a bulk online order of BP.  But the way gasoline has been rising, I've been seriously considering ordering a pallet from Powder Inc.

My first experience with subs was a joy followed by horror.  20 years ago, I was shooting pyrodex in an 1848 dragoon replica, and the much lower fouling compared to BP had me thinking, "Where have you been all my life!"  Later that day, when I was cleaning it, flash rust started appearing everywhere.  I went right back to the real BP and still have the rest of that unused pound of pyrodex.  Admittedly, however, I have no direct experience with the subsequent substitutes that have appeared.     

[pony express]

You don't need to spend $300 to order powder, Graf's will sell any ammount, I think up to 50lb, for one $27.50 Hazmat fee. While it IS cheaper to buy bulk, you can buy 5 or 10 lb from them. 10lb of Graf's or Shutzen plus hazmat would still be about $150. Of course, if you buy Swiss, a bit more $$$....

[Doug.38PR]

I don't suppose it's legal to make your own black powder anymore? (seems like there is a law against everything under the sun these days)

[Doug.38PR]

Just put a cylinder full of this stuff through my New Vaquero.  Somehow I think this stuff is even harder to get off than when cleaning my Pietta 1851 .36 Navy.  That powder really cakes onto the cylinder chambers and throat.  Bore snake and brass bristles even have a tough time getting it off

[rbertalotto]

You want BOOM....Try Blackhporn 209...........Really gets eveyones attention!

[wildman1]

Just put a cylinder full of this stuff through my New Vaquero.  Somehow I think this stuff is even harder to get off than when cleaning my Pietta 1851 .36 Navy.  That powder really cakes onto the cylinder chambers and throat.  Bore snake and brass bristles even have a tough time getting it off

If thats real BP yer talkin about try some dish soap and water. All ya need is a patch and a jag for barrel and an old toothbrush for frame and front of cylinder. If yer tryin ta use regular gun cleanin solvents yer doin it the hard way. WM

[Cliff Fendley]

Just put a cylinder full of this stuff through my New Vaquero.  Somehow I think this stuff is even harder to get off than when cleaning my Pietta 1851 .36 Navy.  That powder really cakes onto the cylinder chambers and throat.  Bore snake and brass bristles even have a tough time getting it off

Use real Black Powder instead of the subs and cleaning is easy. Hot water will do most of your cleaning for you.

Every sub I've used is a mess and hard to clean.

[Doug.38PR]

Use real Black Powder instead of the subs and cleaning is easy. Hot water will do most of your cleaning for you.

Every sub I've used is a mess and hard to clean.

Really?  One of the cans of FFG powder i have (older) is actually called Cleanshot and I was told it's easier to clean than black powder.   All this time I've been shuddering to think what cleaning actual black powder must be like

[longinosoap]

Never shot nor had to clean black powder. I do shoot Goex Pinnacle and APP, which I understand may be the same thing. Both are easier to clean than smokeless. I use moosemilk, which is about (I don't measure) 1/4 Ballistol and 3/4 water. By the way, have never had a problem with rust even after leaving several days before cleaning.

I will never use Pyrodex again! Almost instant rust. Buyer beware.

Just my experience.

[harleydavis]

Use real Black Powder instead of the subs and cleaning is easy. Hot water will do most of your cleaning for you.

Every sub I've used is a mess and hard to clean.

When I first started shooting smokey stuff, I used Pyrodex. It was bit messier than smokeless but I still loved it. I used various recommended  cleaners, some worked better that others, all were costly. It was hard to find real BP in those days. I slide into Civil War reenacting in the early 2000's and watched the veterans pouring (gasp!!) water into their muskets. I could not concieve of such a horrnedous concept. Didnt take long sitting around the campfires to try it myself. Uff, talk about easy. After 40rds of Goex 85gr loads in my old .69 caliber musket, all it takes is maybe 3-4 barrels full of hot water and rag will come out nearly clean. Hot water, amazing how it cleans. The old timers used olive oil after cleaning.  I use extra virgin olive oil over metal & wood and ever since I adapted this method, no rust at all, clean up in minutes. Now, for my revolvers I use a mixture of 50% Windex (w/ammonia) & water and that stuff just wicks the fouling out in about 4-5 patches in the barrel. Use real Black Powder, forget the substitutes. Go in with some pards and order it in bulk from Powder, Inc. Just my two pennies worth, others mileage may vary.

[Doug.38PR]

I just reloaded about 30 rounds with FFG Pioneer.  Had an imaginary gunfight in my woods and backyard.  By the time I was halfway through that new Vaquero started getting pretty grunky and harder and hard to to cock.  Eventually it got to where I had to spin it real hard after I put the last round in.  By the last four rounds it was meeting strong resistance.  Once started spining enough it worked itself out enough to cycle okay.    That stuff is as messy with the new Vaquero as it is with the Pietta .36 Navy.   Fun to shoot, but this is going to be a big cleaning job

[cpt dan blodgett]

Cleaning easier than you think.  Pull Cylinder and Grips.  Boil some water add dish soap.  Run Swabs or bore mops thru cylinders and barrel.  If I leave grips on I do not fully imerse gun, if I pull them I do.  Boiling water heats parts enough they dry quickly and do not rust. 

Oil a bit and  put away.  May want to spray moisture displacing lub into action

[Doug.38PR]

You know I thought after the fact that I could at least put the cylinder in the boiling water to take a lot of that grunk off.  didn't think about taking the plastic grips off and putting the whole gun in.  I've done that with the barrel and cylinder on my Navy.   

Still might boil the cylinder.   Took me 2 hours to clean the gun with paper towels, Remington Oil, steel wool wrapped around a brass bristle brush and a bore snake.  There is still alight shade of grunk on the inside the cylinder chambers.  Boiling will probably get it off.

[Cliff Fendley]

I just reloaded about 30 rounds with FFG Pioneer.  Had an imaginary gunfight in my woods and backyard.  By the time I was halfway through that new Vaquero started getting pretty grunky and harder and hard to to cock.  Eventually it got to where I had to spin it real hard after I put the last round in.  By the last four rounds it was meeting strong resistance.  Once started spining enough it worked itself out enough to cycle okay.    That stuff is as messy with the new Vaquero as it is with the Pietta .36 Navy.   Fun to shoot, but this is going to be a big cleaning job

Stop buying the lies from the sub makers, cleanshot is not clean, all of them are nasty. Throw that stuff away and get you some REAL black powder.