Olde Eynsford Goex's New Powder

[Ranch 13]

44 I doubt pardee did that with the barrel sights, probably with tang sights, but still 4 inches at 110 yds isn't bad but it's not exactly braggin rights either.
 Did you use the original bullet and lubes when you attemted to match Pardee's target?

[Grogan]

While Hodgdon has many Smokeless powders that lots of shooters in America favor, you'd think that they'd pay some attention to a large chunk of BP shooters, both ML and Cartridge shooters, all clammoring for a premium powder to shoot

Maybe not?!! 

I wonder if any posts, such as this, get their attention? 

[w44wcf]

Don,
I used the traditional 427098 design. Bullets were made from the Accurate 43-210B mold (Fairshake) since it drops bullets at the desired .429" diameter (rifle groove diameter - .428").  
Bullets used were within + - .3 grs weight.
The  REM-UMC cases were the SHBP (Solid Head Button Pocket - aka balloon head) type. 
Humidity was around 66%.
 


I had 10 more rounds left and decided to fire those on a separate target to see if accuracy would be maintained or would start to deteriorate.  Thankfully, it didn't.



w44wcf

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[Ranch 13]

Awful lot of verticle, which tells us you were fouling out.

[w44wcf]

Don,
If it were a single shot rifle, perhaps, but a lever action rifle does not have the capability of repeatable accuracy that a single shot does, partly due to all the hardware hanging from the barrel....

If I ever have the inclination and time, I would remove the mag tube and forearm from the rifle and use a barrel rest like the single shots just to see the accuracy improvement that would make.....
  
Shot #40 was amost in the center of the group and a check of the barrel showed even fouling for its full length which is not the case with a barrel that has fouled out with Goex, where by round 12 or so, bullets are starting to fly erratically which was not the case with the Swiss fueled 44-40's used to produce those two targets.  

w44wcf

[Ranch 13]

John for some reason you seem to think that no one else has any experience with lever action rifles ???Some folks cut their teeth on leverguns, and did so along long time before they were the popular thing to do..
You did not use the original wincheter bullet, and you did not use the original winchester lube. So while your test was interesting it was only an example of what you were able to do on a given day, and not a repeat of Pardee's target.
 There's a gawd awful lot of verticle in that group you pictured there and probably if you moved the target back 50 yds, you'ld have a lot of the shots gone over and under the target.That is caused by either a load that's not exactly what the gun wants, the rounds being fired to fast and getting the barrel hot, or the thing is fouling out... Doesn't matter single shot or lever gun, the causes of stringing are all pretty  much the same.
 Now all this is well and good, and we know you like Swiss powder, and we know your experience with other powders is very extremely limited. But what all that has to do with this new wonder powder that Goex/Hogdons has been promising us for 2 years.

[Rowdy Fulcher]

W44wcf
I want to thank you for all the information you have posted . We are all waiting for the New Powder from Goex . Were all hoping that it will be the Wonder Powder as Ranch13 spoke about . And time will tell what we have until then we can only HOPE for the BEST .

[Lumpy Grits]

Knowing Goex's history.
Don't hold your breath.
And I use Goex.........
LG

[58cal]

W44wcf, Thanks for all your help! Your work has made it much easier for me to reload my Winchester.


Cheers

58cal

[w44wcf]

Don,
" John for some reason you seem to think that no one else has any experience with lever action rifles
Don....Nope, don't think any such thing. I've learned a lot from like minded levergunners and I've shared information from my experiences.
  
"You did not use the original wincheter bullet, and you did not use the original winchester lube."  
Since the original Winchester swagged lead bullet has long since been obsolete as well as the specific b.p. used in Doc's factory ammunition, it would be pretty much close to impossible to replicate his ammunition exactly.  So...... I had to improvise.  I used a close copy of the original 44-40 two grooved bullet  (427098) in combination with a powder that closely replicates the moist burning powders of the late 1800's.    

"So while your test was interesting" Thank you. "it was only an example of what you were able to do on a given day, and not a repeat of Pardee's target."  Sorry to disagree but my interest was in trying to equal what was done with a 44-40 shooting 1870's b.p. factory ammunition with cartridges that were close replications. The target speaks for itself.  

"There's a gawd awful lot of verticle in that group you pictured there and probably if you moved the target back 50 yds, you'd have a lot of the shots gone over and under the target."
I have a 200 yard target which shows that the accuracy is holding up well (10 shots in 5"). Also 5 pigs in a row at 300 meters fell to the same ammunition.
 
"That is caused by either a load that's not exactly what the gun wants, the rounds being fired to fast and getting the barrel hot, or the thing is fouling out... Doesn't matter single shot or lever gun, the causes of stringing are all pretty  much the same."
True, but add to that other causes of verticle stringing .....bedding issues and barrel impingements like barrel bands, magazine tube binding, and so on.  

Regarding accuracy, rifle cartridges that have bullets that are longer in relation to the bore diameter than the 44-40 will be more accurate.  For example, Winchester's accuracy specification  for the 44-40 is 4" at 100 yards and 30-30 & like cartridges are shown at 2".  That has been pretty much my experience as well, on average.  

"Now all this is well and good, and we know you like Swiss powder, and we know your experience with other powders is very extremely limited."
Truth is, I have burned more quantities of non Swiss powders....Goex, Schuetzen & lately KIK.... BUT in combination with a  bullet that holds a bit more lube (43-215C) which will allow many shots to be fired from a repeating rifle with good accuracy and no foul out.  They just don't work well with the lesser lube capacity 427098 (43-210B). Swiss does.  

"But what all that has to do with this new wonder powder that Goex/Hogdons has been promising us for 2 years."
Good point. Not much, so back to the original topic of discussion......

w44wcf

[w44wcf]

Rowdy, 58cal,
Thank you for the kind words.  We'll just have to see how Olde Eynsford performs when it becomes available.....

w44wcf

[Ranch 13]

Well at least now we know what this new powder is going to cost.
 ???What we don't know is when they're going to actually ship any of it... February maybe...

[Mean Bob Mean]

Well at least now we know what this new powder is going to cost.
 ???What we don't know is when they're going to actually ship any of it... February maybe...

March, it would seem:

January 10, 2013. Olde Eynsford. No, not today. We are told (heavy sigh) that Old E (as one wag would have it) is scheduled for release in March. Olde Eynsford. Coming soon.

[Fairshake]

Please allow me to add some information to this posting as I consider Ranch 13( Don) and w44wcf(John)  both very good friends and great shooters with black powder.
The bullet that John used in his testing was designed by me and made by Accurate Molds. It is an exact copy of the original 1873 Winchester bullet fired by Doc Pardee with one minor detail changed. If you doubt what I say then do some research. I 'm a true lover of the 44WCF round and shoot nothing but BP at all times. I have always used the Lyman 427098 bullet as it is a replica of the original made by Winchester. It had one small flaw and that is that Lyman has over the years changed the lube grooves to a rounded and shallow design. This is as y'all know, not very good for shooting BP.
I called Tom at Accurate Moulds and had him redesign the bullet with deeper and square lube grooves which I believe are more correct than the current Lyman 427098.
The powders of that time period were some of the finest ever produced. You could fire your rifle or revolver and not even think about cleaning for many days. I have never read any accounts of any battles being lost because of fouled guns.
It is my belief that w44wcf did in fact duplicate the shots fired by Doc Pardee as he was using the correct bullet in his test.
Look at Accurate Molds catalog and view bullet 44-210B. It is a match for the original bullet and holds about 3-4 tenths more lube than the 427098.
I shoot it with KIK powder in all my SASS matches. It is very accurate and gives no problems with rifle barrels of 20 or less inches.
w44wcf has a fine original 24 inch barrel Marlin that he shoots and he designed the 44-215C for it as it carries more lube. Take Care Fairshake

[Ranch 13]

I do know a person that was contacted by Hogdons for correct shipping addy for an advance lot of Old E, and he was told there would be some field testing etc done before the general release. They did not however tell him when they were planning to ship the powder...
 So I'm betting we won't see it yet for a couple or more months.

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy
Hang in there , it's coming .

[Ranch 13]

Howdy
Hang in there , it's coming .

  That's what they've been saying for 3 years now. The first of the major bpcr matches is happening right now in Phoenix. The further into the year we get the more matches stack up. The less time folks are going to want to stop dropback and do load developement on a new powder, and there's a lot of people that say they don't trust Hogdon's to keep it available so they don't even plan on trying it..
 Hogdons really screwed the pooch on this one I'm thinkin..

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy
Talked to Powder Inc today , they expect olde  Eynsford to arrive next week . 877-833-1799

[Ranch 13]

Well good deal. jerry has my standing order for it, so hopefully we'll have some in time to play with it a bit before the first of May.

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy
The wait is almost over . And in a few days we will know if the wait is worth it . We all hope for the BEST but time will tell .