CAI 1887 Lever Action Shotgun (new repro)

[RickB]

I saw that they are importing a new reproduction of the 1887 lever action 12 guage shotgun. I saw 2 of them for sale at the gun show this weekend. The prices were good too. They both were at different tables and both were going for less than $400. I remember the one was selling for $375.00.

I know that they stopped importing them for a while. I believe that the taggs said they were from CAI which appeared to be a Chinese maker.

Anyone hear anything good or bad about them?

I'm interested in buying one if they are good. The price is right and I remember that Norinco stopped importing them. At least I think it was Norinco that was previously importing them.

Anyway. I like this style. The barrel is 20" and it seemed pretty solid. It also doesn't have the funky leather wrap around the lever.

I looked on the web but didn't find any info on them yet. They seem to be pretty new. The boxes kind of reminded me of Cimmarron style boxes.

[Pettifogger]

Do you mean IAC?  IAC was the importer of the Chinese 87s but stopped quite a while back.  The Chinese aren't making them anymore.  Maybe what you saw was some of the leftover stock various dealers are trying to clear out.

[RickB]

Could be, but someone at the show said these are new imports. And neither had the leather wrapped levers. So I don't know.  I've been trying to find out more about them since yesterday.  I'll try to contact the one store and see what they say.

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[Abilene]

Coyote Cap, who got the Chinese to make the '87's, has mentioned on his website that more will be made but they won't be out until next year or so and will have a variety of improvements and a much higher price.  I haven't heard anything about a recent shipment of '87's but hey if a gunshop guy told you that, I'm sure you can believe him    At any rate, that sounds like a pretty good price.

[Missouri Ruffian]

I found them at Impact Guns, in stock for $329.99.  Might just get one myself!

http://www.impactguns.com/century-pw87-lever-action-shotgun-12-ga-pw87-787450069923.aspx

[RickB]

Thank you MR, that is exactly what I found at the gun show and the price is right too. Thanks for posting the info. I was beginning to think I passed up a opportunity that wouldn't come around again.  Like I did when these first came out.

I'll have to save my milk money and buy one soon.

[Abilene]

I see from the link that Missouri Ruffian provided that the importer is CIA.  They were known for importing the "worst" of the Chinese '97's.  Hopefully the '87 will be better.

[RickB]

WM, please share with us what the gunsmith determines.  If they look good I'll be getting one.
The two I examined seemed really nice ( except for the name of the company on the side of the receiver). 
Problem is I wouldn't know exactly what to check for to see if is a good one or not.

[Pettifogger]

Interesting.  Century had one at the Shot Show two years ago.  They weren't sure if there was enough demand to make another 87 and weren't taking orders at that time..  Will be interesting to see how well made they are at that price.  The gun at the Shot Show was pretty rough.

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy
Can you get them in a 28 inch barrel ? That would be nice .

[Six Gun Saint]

Simply due to my price point for a shotgun (and my love of a lever action ANYTHING), I'll probably be snagging one of these as my starter shotgun come January/Early February.

As luck'd have it, my local range has a quite competent smith on hand, and while he may not have any knowhow with the '87, it's certain I am he'll be able to make it worth shooting if it starts off NOT (then again, he may know the '87, dunno-never asked).

Point being, thanks for pointing this out-it's broke my heart was I couldna afford one of the Cimarron versions-all priced well out of my range!

[RickB]

Rowdy, I'm not sure about the barrel length. Might have to ask a dealer.

SGS, you're welcome.  Glad they are making one again.  The price is nice too. The two I examined at the gun show seemed well made and were smooth as glass when I cycled them. I'll be getting one myself soon. I'm hoping that WM gives us his gunsmith friends evaluation soon. I'm eager to see what he says.

[Six Gun Saint]

One question I do have about them-can you load two shells at once, or do you need the Coyote Cap "Two Shot Feeding System" mod?

[RickB]

I can't say for sure,  they wouldn't let me load one up at the gunshow . 

Just can't figure why not.

[Six Gun Saint]

I can't say for sure,  they wouldn't let me load one up at the gunshow . 

Just can't figure why not.

Oh, I wasn't expecting that you'd have loaded one up at the show (although I've been known to carry my own Snap Caps with me to shows just to test such things)-was more wondering if anyone had experience!

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

I have a Cap Coyote that I have put a couple of hundred rounds through ...

The one piece of advice I have to give is that a Model 87 has to be levered with 'vim & vigor" or else the rounds tend to not eject and get caught in the action ... don't ask me how I know this ... *S*

And that is a GREAT idea to bring snap caps in the desired calibers to a gun show ... don't know why I didn't think of that!

TTFN,

[Pettifogger]

Unfortunately snap caps in an 87 usually won't tell you squat.  I've got seven or eight originals and repros.  Snap caps, A Zooms, the orange plastic shells etc. often just plain won't work in an 87.  I have several originals that will not feed a snap cap or the orange plastic shells.  A Zooms are to heavy so they won't eject like an empty.  Yet, the guns work with virtual 100% reliability at matches with real ammo.  Guys these are CHEAP Chinese 87 re-pops.  The IAC models that Coyote Cap worked on had hundreds of flaws that had to be corrected over their production span (they are no longer made).  Expecting a new Chinese model at a super cheap price to function perfectly out-of=the-box is a stretch.  The question is are the materials in the gun and the basic machining good enough so that you can tune them to be reliable.  AND, will there be any spare parts available.  The early guns in any production run of these Chinese guns usually have lots of flaws and sometimes you need spare parts that can be tuned to work.

P.S.  The average "competent" gunsmith won't be able to make them run.  87's are a weird beast.  A gunsmith has to know something about the basic operation of the gun and how and when the parts are supposed to move and interact with each other or you are going to need some of those "spare" parts I mentioned.

[Six Gun Saint]

Weeeeeeeell...  If Snap Caps won't work, why not take empties?  Course, I could see the dealer getting a bit hung up on an empty-hell, I've had 'em what get a bit nervy when ya ask if you can use a Snap Cap!  It's only understandable, though.  There's some crazies, out there.  Can't never be too careful, really.

Don't reckon anyone's expecting them to be "Professional" levels of match-grade, but I DO expect ANY firearm (regardless of pricepoint) to actually WORK (well, except Hi-Points ) like it's supposed to.  In this case, that'd be the action cycles 90+% of the time, and it goes BOOM when I pull the trigger. 

Hundreds of parts inside?  o.o  These...  Uh...  Well, that being the case, them's hundreds of things to go wrong.  One thing I've always liked about the 91/30 Nagant is it's LACK of moving parts.  Same with my Marlin 336.  I mean, are the internals really that different than on a regular lever action?  (For the record, I don't really know jack about gunsmithing)

Still, they're cheaper than most other shotguns what's legal for CAS-and as a man on a budget... 

Anyway, I'll keep a weather eye out for news on 'em, what with the QC being highly suspect and whatnot.

[RickB]

Found the online PDF file of the instructions for the PW87 1887 Shotgun. In case you wish to read it over.

Rowdy, I see the barrel length listed in the instructions says barrel is 19" but the one in the pictures looks much longer. Might want to contact the distributor listed at the bottom of the manual and see if they have plans or have any with the barrel length you are wanting.

http://stevespages.com/pdf/century_pw87-lever-action-shotgun.pdf

I was looking through the CIA online list of guns they sell and I already own a couple of their guns. My SxS mule ear shotgun is from them and I honestly love this gun. I have the one in 20 GA. It's been very solid and reliable. But it doesn't have the complexity to it that this lever action does.

I also own two AK-47 models made by them. One is a Yugo with an under folding stock and the other is a Romainian one with a side folder stock. They are very solid too. I guess I've been lucky since I've not gotten a bad gun from them so far.

I will still wait to see what WMs gunsmith friend says, but I am hoping that this is a good gun for my NCOWS shooting. The one thing about NCOWS as opposed to SASS is NCOWS doesn't race our guns because we aren't going for speed. So maybe if the gun will function at normal speeds it will work for what I need it for. I'm not going to slick it up for racing through the  stages. I'm a slow and steady turtle. Never wanted to be a jack rabbit.

Maybe I should change my alias to Rick "Turtle" Boylan? 

[Pettifogger]

Looked at three today.  They are no where near as refined as the last batch of IAC/Norincos.  No way to tell how they will function without buying one and shooting it.  There aren't hundreds of parts in an 87.  There's only a handful.  However, there are a lot of critical angles and timing events that take place with these few parts.  Unfortunately there are a lot of guns on the market that just plain don't function well out of the box.  I have had many that I have had to fix from name brand manufacturers that just plain didn't work and it was to big a pain to ship them back for repairs so I did them myself.  On the new 87 they look like they copied the Norinco.  They also have the two piece lever and while there were a few comments about they don't have the lever wrap you will darn sure have to install one or you are going to loose some flesh in the joint.  That is why the Norinco came with a lever wrap.  I don't know if I will buy one as I have several 87s right now.  If I did, before I even shot it I would completely disassemble it, examine all the parts and do some deburring and polishing.  All three of the ones I looked at were harder than heck to cock they were so rough.  BUT, for $350.00 bucks they looked like they might be a good starting point for a SASS competition gun.  Forgot to look if they have a "drop two" as the drop two in the Norinco wasn't very good and I put solid mechanical stops in mine and would do the same thing with the new gun.