Reloading the .45-70 for antique springfield

[Ranger Lee Hitch]

Anyone have a favorite recipe for a 300gr lfrn. Looks like a max CUP pressure of 28k. I'm loading in the 14k-18k range for starters. Anyone have any advice on loads that have worked for them for side matches ??
RLH

[Drydock]

If this is a Trapdoor, you NEED this book, IMHO.

http://4570book.info/

THis is not for custom tailored long range loads, but duplicating the MILSPEC ammunition your weapon was designed to use. 

[Jubal Starbuck]

  I'll second what Drydock said.  Excellent book !

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[Ranger Lee Hitch]

Thanks, Marshal, looks like  the reply option was disabled on your posting. I appreciate the steps to guard against typo errors, and down right milicious hombra's. One can't be doo careful with the vermon out there. I have been studing various loads from manufactures for about six months. I have loaded 8 different powders well below the max CUP pressure of 28,000, mine are in the 14k-19k range. I'm looking for any experience other may have and would verify against  powder manufactures data before trying a recomendation. I'm interested if outhers recomend a heavier bullet than the 300gr. or if that's the weight they recomend. If I'm ever able to find a posse around Denver who's main foucus isn't trophies, I'll get some pardner help around the campfire.
RLH

[Ranger Lee Hitch]

Thanks Drydock have the book and another "The .45-70 Springfield" by Joe Poyer and Craig Riesch.. I'm leaning towards modern powders unles you with more exoerience think differently.
Thanks
RLH

[Kent Shootwell]

Hitch, smokeless can be made to shoot well but them stubby 300 grainers don't fly real well, lead round ball will even shoot to 50 yards purtty good but consider 400 grains or better as the distance gets to rifle range. My loading with smokeless has never given me better groups then black powder and the clean up anit as bad as one may think. the lube is the key with black.
Time for me to take some whiskey out to the camp fire and enjoy this fresh snow.

[Drydock]

400 grains for casual loads, 500 grains for serious work.  The "Buffington" rifle sight is calibrated for the 500 grain bullet, all others for a 405 grainer.

 Would reccomend black powder myself, its what my Springfields like best.  IMR 4759 works well, and has a pressure curve well suited for the Allin action. Wolfs book has a starting load using that powder, if you  really want to use smokeless. 5744 leaves too many unburned grains in my guns, tend to get under the rims.  Don't like pistol/shotgun powders in this rifle.

[Ranger Lee Hitch]

Kent Shootwell,
I'm also from  " Colorada" the Denver area, I have read alot of conflictind information, flber fill ,no fiber fill, The heavier the bullet the less powder leaving you with less case fill, black powder ( have little experience) , BP substitutes, 300 -405-500gr. I'd like to find a group to join so we could sit aroung the campfire, sharing some rotgut and experiences. Rather limited on the Eastern slope. This is an antique 1884 trapdoor all original (wish it could talk) and not willing to take any risks. I'm not looking for someone to tell me but rather guide me in a direction. Feel free to e-mail if you'd  like to share your experience

[HKUriah]

I had a couple of loads listed as "trapdoor safe" using 405 grain bullet.  One was with 4034 and the other with 4895.   Both were very accurate, and could reach out and touch targets at about 300 yards.

And as long as the only gun I used these in was my 1884 Trapdoor rifle, they were just fine.

But, the trapdoor rifle is one heck of a heavy beast, and does not lend itself well to extended offhand shooting, which is my favorite way to shoot.

So, I got myself an 1873 Trapdoor carbine, and a 20" Winchester 1886.

In these much lighter weight weapons, that "trapdoor safe" load was a NASTY shoulder thumper.   It was downright painful to shoot.

So, not sure of what else to do, I switched to the powder I was already using for everything else, Trail Boss.  All of a sudden, with that same 405 grain bullet, both of these guns became quite pleasnt to shoot.  Accuracy was still good at 300 yards, but I don't know about any further than that. 

Are we allowed to post data here?  If we are, I'll post the Trail Boss load for your consideration.

[PJ Hardtack]

In my Trapdoors, I enjoy 36 grs of 3031 or Varget with 350 and 405 gr bullets. My Browning '86 dotes on 28 grs 5744 with the same bullets. These are accurate loads that don't beat the snot out of you.

The only two moose I've taken fell to 36 grs 3031 under my cast 420 gr RNFPs. The guys I was hunting with were shooting magnums and their animals required more than one shot.

There are some who think that a 45-70 needs to be loaded to sub-.458 Win Mag potential. God bless 'em! Not for this Cowboy.

[Doug.38PR]

The original military bullet was a lead 405 gr lead bullet I believe.  That's what I shoot.  Load with Trailboss.  It's a very light powder designed for Cowboy Action shooting.  I stay around 12.5 grains for my Pedersoli.   I believe the loading data calls for between 12-13 grains of Trailboss.  For an original gun, I personally would keep it on the low end.

See for yourself.  http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

[Bow View Haymaker]

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      Re: Trailboss for .45-70
« Reply #6 on: Today at 11:21:47 am »     

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Just posted this on another thread,



\When I started looking for loads for a trapdoor last year, I looked at Trailboss closely.  Many of the folks shooting GAF use it in .30-40, .30-06, .45-70 and .50-70.  about 10-13 grains in any of them.   I looked at the chamber pressures of the different powders closely.   The trapdoor action being what it is and the gun being around 150 years old ,I wanted the lowest pressure possible.  Although Trailboss is within the Safe specs for trapdoor rifles,it has one of the highest chamber pressures of the powders I considered.  I ended up going with IMR 3031 as it has about the lowest and listed starting loads within below the 1400fps CAS max.  turned out pretty accurate and worked well in the rifle.  I did use Trailboss i some .30-06 but still have to get the right load. 
 
 
 

[Drydock]

I have found Trail Boss to work extremely well in Bottleneck rifle cartridges.  But I've (Just me now) never had much luck with it myself in straight wall cases.  I burn a lot of Trail Boss in my .30 US Krags and 7.62x54R Mosins, but SR4759 is probably my 2nd favorite in straight case BP rounds, the first being Black Powder itself.

[Ranch 13]

Ranger Lee with you being in the Denver area, I'ld suggest you watch the Golden gunclubs schedule and when they have the monthly sillouette matches at the range in Watkins go out there and visit with some of those fella's. The match director in particular. Those guys are a good bunch and will get you off on the proper footing to making your trapdoor shoot well.