*** Photos Added *** Two Spencer carbines in hand today!

[G.W. Strong]

OK, My Spencer arrived today. It is a beater but it is mine.
I cannot  find an inscription above the breach but it may be worn away.
the serial number is 16280.
Pics will follow. I think it is an m1860 in 56/56 but i am not sure.

I am looking forward to learning more.

Educate me.

[Two Flints]

Hi Hopalong Strong,

I checked on your serial #16280.  Unfortunately, I don't have a serial # that really comes close to your #16280 in my SRS books. The closest serial # that is lower than yours is a Spencer Carbine, serial # 16261 that was issued to a member of Company K, 11th Michigan Volunteer Cavalry on August 17, 1864 and the closest serial # that is higher than yours is a Spencer Carbine, serial #16296 that was issued to a member of Company B, 2nd Michigan Volunteer Cavalry in 1864.

Your serial # falls in between the above mentioned two serial #s, and that's the best info I have.  Hope this helps.

Two Flints

[Two Flints]

Hopalong,

Sent you a PM  Please post photos of your Spencer, especially the receiver area top and sides, and with the breechlock dropped down.  Send the photos to me (fsgrand2@fairpoint.net) and I will post them for you.

Again, my error in not unlocking this thread . . . once my reply was posted.

Two Flints

[Advertising]

[G.W. Strong]

How wierd is this? One day after I got my spencer my kids' godmother just showed up with her great grandfather's civil war gun.10 guesses what is was and the first nine don't count. it is a M1860 spencer serial number 33646. Her great grandfather brought it home from the war is the story in her family. I had not told her about my spencer and it is a total fluke. her dad recently passed away and she just inherited it. She brought it to me because she know I know a fair amount about guns.






























                                     (Photos Posted by Two Flints)

[G.W. Strong]

It was extremely helpful to have two spencers in my hands. I could really see the differences and the similarities.

I suspect based on this mine (16280) is a mix master of little value that needs quite a few parts.

I think my friend's Spencer (33646) is a nice example in need of a new sight spring, front band, and a couple of screws.

Here are some observations:
16280 has a 3 groove sleeved barrel
33646 has a 6 groove solid barrel

16280 has a square notch in front of the trigger
33646 has a nicely fitted, rounded profile, in the same place

16280 has a grooved magazine tube end cap (don't know the name)
33646 has a smooth  magazine tube end cap (don't know the name)

16280 has a spring that moves the extractor
33646 has no spring to move the extractor

Both have 22 inch barrels
Both appear to be model 1860
I think they are both 56/56 caliber but the bore of 33646 looks larger than 16280 when held side by side.
I think the breech of 16280 goes to a different, perhaps later, carbine.

[Two Flints]

Hi Hopalong,

I checked on your Spencer Carbine, serial #33646 and the closest listed Spencer serial # to yours is #33647, a Spencer Carbine issued to a member of Company H of the 6th New York Volunteer Cavalry in June 10, 1865.  The Spencers issued in that serial # range 33,XXX were very scattered going to many different units in no special order.

Two Flints

[Arizona Trooper]

I suspect based on this mine (16280) is a mix master of little value that needs quite a few parts.

Yours was rebuilt at Springfield and, except for the missing parts, is the way it ought to be for an armory rebuild. Clean it up and replace the missing parts, and you will have a great Spencer carbine.

I think my friend's Spencer (33646) is a nice example in need of a new sight spring, front band, and a couple of screws.
Your friends is just the way a soldier would have brought it home from the war. Neat find, and great family history. See if you can find who the soldier was and get his service records from the National Archives.

Here are some observations:
16280 has a 3 groove sleeved barrel
This should be 50 caliber and take 56-50 ammo. Springfield sleeved the barrels down to 50 caliber for the new ammo when they rebuilt these carbines in 1867-74 About 11,000 were rebuilt and updated. Interestingly, they were considered second class arms and were issued mainly to state troops and settlers.

33646 has a 6 groove solid barrel
This is the original 52 caliber barrel and takes 56-56 ammo.

16280 has a square notch in front of the trigger
The notch is for a stabler magazine cutoff, which is missing from your carbine. They are not hard to get. About half of the Springfield rebuilds had cutoffs installed.

33646 has a nicely fitted, rounded profile, in the same place
No magazine cutoff on this one.


16280 has a grooved magazine tube end cap (don't know the name)
This is an M-1865 magazine. Some rebuilds had them installed, others were replaced in service after the war. No problem with it.

33646 has a smooth  magazine tube end cap (don't know the name)
This is the original M-1860 mag.

16280 has a spring that moves the extractor
This is the Stabler magazine spring modification. It was installed in the Springfield rebuilds to make single loading easier. Notice that the top of the frame where the breechblock comes through has been rounded off. This is also to make single loading easier.

33646 has no spring to move the extractor
That's the standard M-1860 configuration

Both have 22 inch barrels
Both appear to be model 1860
That is correct

I think they are both 56/56 caliber but the bore of 33646 looks larger than 16280 when held side by side.
16280 is 50 caliber, and 33646 is 52 caliber.

I think the breech of 16280 goes to a different, perhaps later, carbine.
The breech was changed when 16280 was rebuilt. It is correct. Also, when carbines were rebuilt, the frames were buffed and re-color casehardened, which often removed the "Spencer Repeating Rifle Co." markings. The fact that those are missing on 16280 is no big deal.

Judging from the look of the frame where the hammer nose hits, 33646 has been dry fired A LOT! I suspect that you will find that it has pretty good dent in the right side of the chamber. If you try to load it without fixing the dent it will probably jam. Other than that, it's a good looking carbine.

The good news is that both of those carbines are correct and with a little work would clean up nicely and could be made complete. Congratulations!

[G.W. Strong]

That was exciting information. I know s&s has parts. Are there better sources?

[Arizona Trooper]

S&S is an excellent source. If they don't have what you are looking for, try Ed Knisely: 717-741-2556, EdKnisely (at) aol (dot) com
Ed is good at finding oddball stuff. When S&S didn't have a particular part for my recent Burnside restoration, Ed could scrounge it up.

[Trailrider]

In photos #5 & 6, showing the top of the "beater", there appears to be a very faint circular mark stamped toward the lower left. Almost looks like the head of a lion or lion's face. Am I just seeing things or what?

[G.W. Strong]

In photos #5 & 6, showing the top of the "beater", there appears to be a very faint circular mark stamped toward the lower left. Almost looks like the head of a lion or lion's face. Am I just seeing things or what?

I think it is a combo of rust pitting. left over lettering and the lighting. I cannot see anything on the rifle though I can see what you are referring to in the pic.

[Trailrider]

Maybe I've been looking at too many photos of the "face" on the planet Mars!    The orbiters don't "see" anything but an arrangement of dirt.  Those who believe there are/were Martians hold to a different opinion. (But then Percival Lowell thought he saw "canals." 

[G.W. Strong]

I looks like I can get everything I need at S&S. It is a one stop shop. The parts will cost more than I paid for my carbine but I think I got a good deal on it. I am still open to other ideas of parts sources if anyone has any.