Author Topic: Beginning CAS guns  (Read 18027 times)

Offline Sacramento Johnson

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2012, 10:02:45 PM »
Howdy again Cowboyjared!
 If the authentic historical aspect of the 1870s-1880s (the Earp and Wild Bill era) interests you, I'd suggest looking more closely at that Cimmaron coach gun with it's external hammers; these would have been more common in the Old West of that era, than an internal hammered double like the Stoeger.  Look at the 1866 and 1873 rifles and carbines also, as the 1892 Winchester, although good for a Hollywood western persona, would be too late for the earlier era.
As for handguns, cap and ball and conversions thereof would be correct for the era, but you could also go with 1873 Colt peacemakers and their clones (including the Ruger Vaquero).  As you're new to cowboy action shooting, I'd stick with the 1873 peacemaker/clones. The Rugers will be easier to use and more reliable; one less thing to worry about when you're starting out.  (I, too, went with Rugers initially, and still use them regularly even now for CAS.) As for calibers and powder, the authentic calibers to that era which are commonly available now are 45 colt and 44-40 for pistols and 44-40 for long guns. (There were no 45 colt long guns in the Old West.)  The authentic powder would be black powder, not smokeless.  As you're just starting out, and may have a limited budget, this is where I would break with historical tradition, and go with the historically later, but cheaper to shoot 38 special caliber in smokeless for both handguns and long guns.   If you really enjoy CAS, at a future date, you could pick up some guns in more historically appropriate (and more expensive) calibers.   Now if the mounted aspect really interests you, be aware, they only allow 45 colt in their pistols. 
(For gunleather, check out the book "Packing Iron", which will give you tons of pictures of period correct gun leather from the mid 19th century to the early 20th century.)
Hope this helps!

Offline cowboyjared

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2012, 11:06:20 AM »
Today I was going to the local gun stores and checking prices and availability for a gun my friend wants. Well as I was looking around I found a used Ithaca double barrel 12 GA shotgun, now my question is, is it legal to use CAS?

Offline Pancho Peacemaker

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2012, 11:40:47 AM »
An Ithaca SxS should be fine . . . BUT . . . Ithaca did make some very beautiful embellished SxS which can command $10K+ to collectors.  If it is a field grade, mechanically sound,  and it was made post 1900, it should be a good gun for CAS.
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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #23 on: Today at 06:53:30 PM »

Offline WaddWatsonEllis

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2012, 09:44:42 PM »
Hi,

As silly as it may seem, weather can make a difference. For instance, living where it gets hot means that the barrel can get almost to hot to hold in a '66 (since it was not make with a forestock) ... something to consider when thinking about long guns ....

TTFN,
My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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Offline Pancho Peacemaker

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2012, 09:50:26 PM »
Hi,

As silly as it may seem, weather can make a difference. For instance, living where it gets hot means that the barrel can get almost to hot to hold in a '66 (since it was not make with a forestock) ... something to consider when thinking about long guns ....

TTFN,

You might be thinkin about a '60 Henry.  The '66 has a fore end stock.
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Offline WaddWatsonEllis

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2012, 08:19:04 AM »
Pancho,

I probably bunched the two weapons together ...mea culpa!

Thanks for getting me on the right track!
My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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Offline cowboyjared

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2012, 10:25:32 PM »
So I made my first two CAS guns today a Uberti Model 1866 Sporting Model in the 45 LC(it was half the new price and in great shape). I also bought a early 1900s Ithaca double barrel shotgun.

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2012, 07:06:34 AM »
Your on your way...nice choices

when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Tascosa Joe

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2012, 12:30:42 PM »
If you choose to check out the NCOWS posse in Nebraska you will find we have the Working Cowboy Class which requires one rifle and one pistol.  I think you will find your visit to the Blue River Regulators interesting.

If you are considering buying a cap and ball revolver and a conversion cylinder, do not buy a brass framed pistol.
T-Joe
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Offline cowboyjared

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2012, 09:21:18 PM »
So when you convert a 1851 Navy from .36 cal to 38 special  I have read that you need to have the barrel worked on because the shells arent big enough to grip in the barrel thus making it inaccurate. Whats your take on this?

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2012, 04:09:11 AM »
BP Conversion's will have a .375 barrel,   38 is .357

there are three options  

* Shoot heeled bassed 38 ( you have to reload these or buy from Gary Barns ) Hollow Base wadcutters Factory Ammo can be used too.
   these will expand to engage the lands and grooves

*  Have the barrel relined with a .357 liner (pricey)  several Smiths do this and it is a cool mod. but it will add to the cost of the conversion on your gun.
    

*  best bet, buy a Factory conversion like Uberti's  Richards & Mason , it is designed for 38 and it will  be a bit less in cost
    than buying a C&B and gated Conversion cyl. , ejector and have both fitted and relining the barrel.

 photo is Ubertis R&M  ( both are the same gun one is photo shop to the shorter barrel )
and BTW is my gun,  I'll add it has been Bobbed to 5 1/2 " by Jay Strite (Kirst/Strite)  and was smithed by Longhunter.
It has one of the sweetest actions and shoots very well with Factory Black Hills 38 Specials.

 The third photo is a gated Kirst convered 1862 London Navy , this still has the .375 barrel (bobbed to 3" ) and I use heeled base bullets loaded with BP, seen with the gun....
Conversion work was done by Gary Barns ( then with Kirst , now independent )
 
when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Daniel Nighteyes

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2012, 12:29:19 PM »
CowboyJared,

Earlier, you mentioned that the BP revolver had a stouter hammer spring than the cartridge revolver you tested.  That is always going to be true. The hammer springs on BP revolvers have to be stronger, to make certain that the falling hammer strikes with enough force to fire the percussion cap.  Cartridge revolvers don't have this "handicap".

At least in my opinion, btw, using a "plain" conversion cylinder on one of Colonel Colt's percussion revolvers ('51, '60, '61) is going to be a real pain in the aspirations (if'n ya know what I mean  ;)).  You'll have to disassemble the sucker each time you want to reload, so you'll have to keep up with four parts -- barrel assembly, barrel wedge, and both parts of the cylinder.  In most cases you'll also need a screwdriver or similar to turn the wedge screw.

If you really like the looks and feel of these pistolas, I second the suggestion of taking a long, hard look at the various ready-made "conversions" such as the Richards-Mason pistols (1851 and 1860).  They cost more, sure, but they're ready right out of the box.  Since they're already set up with a loading gate and ejector, you don't have to take them apart to reload.

-- Daniel Nighteyes

Offline cowboyjared

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2012, 08:18:40 PM »
So are the ready made conversions equipped with a lighter trigger or are they as have as the percussion cap ones?

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2012, 08:35:51 PM »
lighter....
when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Daniel Nighteyes

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2012, 11:21:49 AM »
So are the ready made conversions equipped with a lighter trigger or are they as have as the percussion cap ones?

Generally they are lighter, and they can be made lighter still.

Offline Pappy Myles

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2012, 12:10:00 PM »
My 2 cents.  Keep it Simply Simple on your 1st set.  Yes we have a pricy sport.  Nothing is more frustrating than going to your 1st few matchs and your firearms, due to the complexity of the modifications that you'll need to get them accurate, malfunction, or you lose track of what your suspose to be doing in a scernio because you guns require a lot of attention.   I've been shooting about 10 years now and still constantly change category.  I have 45 colts, 44-40, 38, 357, and 32, plus 44 cap and ball.  If I had to do it all over again, I'd:
1. Go see what a lot of folks are shooting. 2. Make friends with some of the interesting characters in the sport and try out different guns, calibers. 3. This one is optional - but pick a time period that you want to emulate.  I break it down into a. pre 73, b. the 1873 thru 1892s and the 1892 till 1898's.  From here you can pick your time period of guns.  This is strictly optional.  Take a look at SASS rules for what category you will most likely shoot in. 4. Rifle and Pistol calibers the same.  Makes it more economical. 5. Choose reliable out of the box guns (ok  you can guess I'm going to say ruger)  I have 4 pair of Om Vaqueros, 1 pair of NM vaqueros, a pair of Old Armies, 2 pair of Colts model P's and a uberti schofield.  Cant go wrong with a pair of NM vaqueros, 6. I have a very high opinion of uberty 73's and being the besr all around rifle.   I'll get a lot of comments from the marlin crowd.  There are no flees on either model. it just I've seen more marlins jam up than 73's.  7.  Stoger shotguns, best bang for the buck and easy to work on.  8.  Once your fully hooked, get a bigger gunsafe, you'll need it

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Offline wildman1

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2012, 03:29:58 PM »
+1 on the guns Pappy.  :) WM
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Offline Daniel Nighteyes

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2012, 12:57:33 PM »
So are the ready made conversions equipped with a lighter trigger or are they as have as the percussion cap ones?
Generally they are lighter, and they can be made lighter still.

After going thru much of what Pappy described, I finally settled on my main match pistolas.  They're a brace of Uberti '58 Remingtons (actual name = Remington New Model Army Revolvers) that originally had that b*tt-ugly 'Millennium' finish.

Modifications were (a) stripping off that ugly finish and letting the bare metal age naturally, (b) installing lightened mainsprings that were originally intended for the Uberti '75 Remington, (c) installing 'antiqued' R&D .45 Colt conversion cylinders, (d) installing 'aged ivory' grips, and (e) shooting them in about 250 matches at the CAS ranges in Piru CA, so that they've gradually accumulated an excellent 'Piru Action Job' -- its very dusty there, you see...

Today their actions are as smooth as butter, the hammers will cock with very little pressure, and I touch off a round by the power of thought.  They almost always shoot right where I'm looking, so the sights frequently don't even get used.



I'm still slower than molasses in January, but at least part of that is because I shoot Double Duelist and wear my pistolas butt-forward.



Just remember, through all of this initial journey, that the Prime Directive is and always has been, "Have FUN!!!"

Regards,

-- Nighteyes

Offline Pappy Myles

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2012, 03:56:28 PM »
Congrats!
They look great! and like you said, have fun with them.........What do you use for a rifle?
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Offline Storm Crow

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Re: Beginning CAS guns
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2012, 12:53:30 AM »



I absolutely love that knife!  Where did you find it?

Storm Crow
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