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Author Topic: .45 Special  (Read 5913 times)

Offline Drayton Calhoun

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.45 Special
« on: July 30, 2011, 12:51:07 AM »
 Why?
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Offline Adirondack Jack

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Re: .45 Special
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2011, 01:49:44 AM »
Let me refer you to the cowboy45special.com website.  It gives a pretty detailed rationale behind the cartridge.

The nutshell version is this:  I was shooting frontier cartridge at the time, running .45 Colt, 250s, with a full case of 777 FFG, which was not only expensive, but extreme overkill.   I says to myself, "Self", if I had a case with about half the capacity under the bullet, it'd save powder, still make plenty enough smoke, and cut recoil (which is time in any game with a timer)

Of course these projects sometimes lead ya where ya don't expect to go.

Like figuring out that not only with BP, but with smokeless as well, the big old colt case wasn't that hot for reduced loads, and a case about the same length as .45 ACP would be a lot better.

Which led to "how low can we go?" questions, and that led to a fancy 130 gr HB bullet that allows the .45 Special to run dead rock minimum SASS-legal loads heads on even with the light .38s, and they still group well...

Somewhere along the way the .45 Spl le us to get involved in making em run in rifles, both Marlins specially prepared, and in toggle links with a carrier I developed (runs .44 russian too, for the .44 folks)

I may be crazy, but I'm in good company.  We've sold half a million of em.
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Offline Drayton Calhoun

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Re: .45 Special
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2011, 02:01:32 AM »
I was just curious, sounds about like the .45 Auto-Rim. Had a .455 Webley in Auto-Rim. I don't like to sound negative, but it sounds like a non-period cartridge developed for weapons that have to be converted to fire them. How are they being accepted into competition?
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Re: .45 Special
« Reply #3 on: Today at 02:07:39 PM »
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Offline Cherokee Reb

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Re: .45 Special
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2011, 07:02:42 AM »
Think .45 Short Colt. It is basically a new cartidge deleloper for the guys who wanted to be able to say they shoot .45s without the power or recoil. Didn't exist,  wouldn't use them.

CR
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Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: .45 Special
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2011, 10:41:34 AM »
You don't have to alter anything to run .45 Spl.  Same chamber & rim, and buy the cases readymade.  Use .45 ACP dies, which most of us old IPSC guys still have in a drawer somewhere.

"Historical" is a debate.  Don't try them at an NCOWS match, but the special is very close to the .455 Colt/Webley/Eley, which was a SAA chambering, though not all that common.

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Offline Drayton Calhoun

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Re: .45 Special
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2011, 12:33:48 PM »
Quote from: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on July 30, 2011, 10:41:34 AM
You don't have to alter anything to run .45 Spl.  Same chamber & rim, and buy the cases readymade.  Use .45 ACP dies, which most of us old IPSC guys still have in a drawer somewhere.

"Historical" is a debate.  Don't try them at an NCOWS match, but the special is very close to the .455 Colt/WebleyEley, which was a SAA chambering, though not all that common.


Sort of figured that, but wouldn't that be kind of like using a 1895 Nagant gas seal in a match? True, it is period, also uncommon, but it was a seven shooter. Would it be accepted? I have no idea.
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The first step of becoming a good shooter is knowing which end the bullet comes out of and being on the other end.

Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: .45 Special
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2011, 02:09:44 PM »
Quote from: Drayton Calhoun on July 30, 2011, 12:33:48 PM
Sort of figured that, but wouldn't that be kind of like using a 1895 Nagant gas seal in a match? True, it is period, also uncommon, but it was a seven shooter. Would it be accepted? I have no idea.

I think the minimum calibre for a SAA or NCOWS main match revolver is .32? I think the Russian Nagant is too small, but a Swede might be legal.
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With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”

Offline Drayton Calhoun

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Re: .45 Special
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2011, 03:51:12 PM »
True,it is a 7.62, but I understand there are conversion cylinders for .32 HR available. Not positive though. Ugly gun, but rather comfortable to handle.
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The first step of becoming a good shooter is knowing which end the bullet comes out of and being on the other end.

Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: .45 Special
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2011, 05:21:08 PM »
Quote from: Drayton Calhoun on July 30, 2011, 03:51:12 PM
True,it is a 7.62, but I understand there are conversion cylinders for .32 HR available. Not positive though. Ugly gun, but rather comfortable to handle.
Mine needs a towing hook from a russian tracktor to fire it double action!
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THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
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without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”

Offline Drayton Calhoun

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Re: .45 Special
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2011, 06:23:14 PM »
Da! But is rugged! Will take much abuse and keep on firing  and give you work out in process! Oh a little research turned up the conversion is for .32 ACP.
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The first step of becoming a good shooter is knowing which end the bullet comes out of and being on the other end.

Offline Jefro

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Re: .45 Special
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2011, 09:03:33 PM »
Quote from: Drayton Calhoun on July 30, 2011, 12:51:07 AM
Why?
Why not ??? Great little .45 cartridge in the revolvers, loaded with about 20gr FFFG Schentzen and a 200gr big lube ;D Topped off with a 44/40 rifle, makes a great combination for CAS. ;)
Quote from: Cherokee Reb on July 30, 2011, 07:02:42 AM

Think .45 Short Colt. It is basically a new cartidge deleloper for the guys who wanted to be able to say they shoot .45s without the power or recoil. Didn't exist,  wouldn't use them.

CR
The 38/357 didn't exist either but we shoot them :P Don't forget we have men, women, and kids of all ages playing this game. Heather and I use them because we use the same .45 revolvers for Cowboy Fast Draw. 8) I don't need a full house load to prove anything, I'm here for fun. I guess I could use grits like some do......or just use the .45sp ;D

Jefro :D Relax-Enjoy
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Offline Drayton Calhoun

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Re: .45 Special
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2011, 07:27:12 AM »
Not complaining, just wondering. As far as the .38/.357 goes, there was the .38 Colt, but it is flat out obsolete. I realize that the case volume of the .45 Colt is not suited to reduced loads, but, modification to a Marlin 94 kind of offsets the financial savings of the cartridge. But, to each his own.
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Offline John Smith

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Re: .45 Special
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2011, 07:55:26 AM »
Quote from: Drayton Calhoun on July 30, 2011, 12:33:48 PM
Sort of figured that, but wouldn't that be kind of like using a 1895 Nagant gas seal in a match? True, it is period, also uncommon, but it was a seven shooter. Would it be accepted? I have no idea.

Single action, and DAs converted to SA, Nagants are SASS legal.  Just load 5 and you are good to go, most people who use them shoot .32 S&Ws.
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Offline Cherokee Reb

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Re: .45 Special
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2011, 11:53:10 AM »
Quote from: Drayton Calhoun on July 31, 2011, 07:27:12 AM
Not complaining, just wondering. As far as the .38/.357 goes, there was the .38 Colt, but it is flat out obsolete. I realize that the case volume of the .45 Colt is not suited to reduced loads, but, modification to a Marlin 94 kind of offsets the financial savings of the cartridge. But, to each his own.

Dang.....38 Colt obsolete ?   :o  :o I have 500+ rounds loaded for my Open Tops and am awaiting a batch of heeled bullets to load up some proper .38 Colt rounds for my 1877 Colt .

CR
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Offline Tjackstephens

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Re: .45 Special
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2011, 12:31:23 PM »
I have a Military issue Colt 38 long colt DA. Was used by our Military up to the 1911 were issued. I admit it is under powdered, but was used for a long time. Ole Teddy even carried one in Cuba. it is NCOWS legal, shoots very well. Have to be pretty strong to shoot it double action though. Lot of fun to show up at an NCOWS match with it.
Know this has nothing to do with the .45 special. Just wanted to let Reb know there were others with colt 38's still in use. Continue on with your post on .45 specials. It's not  anything I need as 4.8 grains of Clays works just great in my 45 Colts. Tj
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