Saying NO to chainfire!

[ZVP]

 For Chainfire protection I prefer the Lubed Wad's and have tried to do away with Crisco because of the high ambient air temps where I live. Temps get to 103 regularily and often higher which melts the Crisco in my shooting Kit. I know there is enough residue left on the chambers even if it does go on a little soft or runny to prevent a chainfire but it gets all over the gun and grips.
 I have heard of folks using Moly Wheel Bearing Grease on the chambers and since it's thicker I think I'll use it if I run out of Wads.
 I don't have acess to Bees wax and don't want to make up an oldtime concoction.
 Since the ambient air temps here in Calif's Central Valley run so high,the wads work out the "neatest" and you don't end up trying to hold on to a greasy gun...
 One advantage to using a grease on the cylinder is that upon firing the gun, grease gets blown into all the necessary places and actually lubes the revolver! You get more shots between cleanings.
 What is the most common protection method where you shoot?
ZVP

[Bishop Creek]

In Summer, hot and dry, high desert/mountains here. I get beeswax from a craft store and melt it with a little paraffin, let it cool then cut out wads with an empty Colt .45 case. Place the little beeswax wad on top of the powder, then the ball on top. Works like a charm in my climate

[Pettifogger]

The best way to avoid chain fires is to use a pure lead ball that is a tight fit in the chambers. 

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[rickk]

I started off with Crisco, then switched to high temp wheel bearing grease (same issues with Crisco on hot days as you).

I finally settled on felt wads soaked in beeswax/paraffin/tallow as they are less messy that grease.

Tallow is currently hard to find. I'm supposed to get a call from a slaughterhouse, but still waiting. When my dwindling supply runs out I may experiment with tallow substitutes in the classic 3 part recipe, possibly substituting crisco for tallow. I have heard olive oil mentioned as well.

Bees wax and paraffin can be easily gotten in 20-50# lots on ebay for a buck or a little more a pound. The felt wads are easy to punch out with an arch punch. Durofelt is a great source of felt.

[Lucky R. K.]

You might want to consider Emmerts lube for your pistols.  It is very in-expensive to make and it works great year-around.  If you don't know about it the formula is 50% beeswax, 40% Crisco, and 10% canola oil (or olive oil).  I melt it in a double boiler and pour it into molds I made for use in a lube-sizer.  You can vary the beeswax to get a firmer or softer hardness.

I found the recipe on the Internet years ago and have used it for literally thousands of rounds of black powder pistol, rifle and shotgun rounds.

It is easy to make, cheap, and in my opinion, the best black powder lube out there.

Lucky 

[Montana Slim]

Beating a dying horse again.
Agree that chainfires from the front will not happen if your using a correctly oversize, soft lead projectile.

Most dissastisfaction from using Criso over the top is due to applying too much. General guidance for applying instructs you to fill to the top with lube. This is way too much for proper lubrication. I only apply a small puddle to each chamber. I also use a small spreader to spread it around over the projectile. This increases surface tension, which prevents it from running out of the chambers and/or into your holster. Using a small amount of lube also greatly reduces lube splattered onto the barrel...barely any on my holster-sized revolvers & zero on my Dragoons.

For those who insist on generous lubing, I suggest Criso in cooler weather and Criso melted/mixed with a small amount of beeswax in warm-hot weather. Note you may have to apply this stiffer lube with a makeshift spatula...remember, it isn't gonna "flow".

Regards,
Slim

[Mako]

I have said NO to chainfires...

I have taken every precaution to prevent the cause of chainfires by outfitting my working pistols with correct fitting cones, caps and making sure all loaded chambers are capped before firing.

The front end is a no-brainer,  you use dead soft lead balls at least .002"- .003" larger in diameter than the chamber.  With balls larger than the chambers the sprue is not even an issue with soft cast balls.  It will just shear off if it is a mold that cuts them off a bit proud.  If not then put the sprue either up or down.  With swaged balls this is of course a non-issue.  Lube is just that, lubrication to keep the fouling soft.

Regards,
Mako

[Noz]

I am a user of homemade lubed wads but a conversation with a really fine Ruger Old Army shooter this spring may change my mind.
He has gone back to the Saml Colt recommended powder, ball and cap. He did quite a bit of research on the subject and determined that the risk of a "multiple discharge" was so small with soft balls to be almost non-existent. Also the damage to the gun and shooter if such a thing occurs is equally small.
If the cylinder begins to drag, he wipes it with a damp cloth. He loads "on the gun".
I may just go back to that

[Mako]

Noz,
Sounds reasonable, his argument is legitimate.  In all that I have experienced and deduced after sifting through the after incident stories I have to agree with him on the safety aspect. 

I simply use the wads to keep things soft and provide that little bit of lube to the arbor/cylinder interface.  If I was shooting an ROA I might go that path just to keep my hands cleaner, but shooting my '60s I need every advantage I can get.  Keep me posted on what your experience is.

~Mako

[john boy]

A 100% DITTO to Mako's post
Also, let's step back into the Day's of Yore.  Do you really believe that C&B owners carried a container of lubed wads or lube around with them and used these wads or buttered the balls before they put the revolver into their holster ... that was probably was carried for weeks or months before it was discharged to prevent chain fires?

Probably started with some 'modern day expert hombre' who was using undersized balls made of wheel weights and after a chain fire or 2 or 3 thought it was a good idea to use lube.  So he posted it on the SASS Wire!  

[longinosoap]

Ditto John Boy. I am new (12 shots thru my 1851Navy) to C&B but after loading the balls I cannot imagine how a chainfire could occur seeing as how tight the ball fit in the cylinder.  And no, I do not think the old timers carried around wads, Crisco, beeswax or any other paraphenalia listed above.  So I will live with 3f covered by a soft lead ball and let the chips fall where they may.

Regards

Soap

[Bishop Creek]

The only time I have ever experienced a chainfire was back over 40 years ago with my first cap and ball pistol. I had no lube of any kind in the cylinders (as per Col. Colt's instructions) when the chain fire happened. Looking back, I really suspect though that it was caused by loose fitting #11 CCI caps that I had to pinch on. They were really of poor quality back in 1969.

Somewhere, I have seen posted (maybe on this site) the use of lubed wads as far back as the 1930s and remember reading of the old-timers using beeswax wads in the cylinders on top of the balls. Most likely to help prevent moisture from getting in and not to prevent chainfires.

Me? I lube to keep my pistol running smooth, not with any idea of preventing chainfires.

[Noz]

After posting on this thread, I took my 1860s to the range, loaded 27 gr of FFg and a 454 RB. Five in each, all went boom. Granted not much of a test but they did work as they should. I am using dead soft X-ray lead for my RBs.

[Mako]

Noz,
Keep track of your cleaning for us.  You have enough experience with the lubricated wads to have a very large amount of lubricated wad data to compare to.  Pay attention to the cylinder rotation (the freedom to rotate) and whether or not you get any leading or hard fouling in the barrel.  

I'm not too worried about leading with the velocity you will get with 27gr of BP.  It will be more of the fouling with some lead integrated into it that will be interesting.  At CAS ranges I don't think barrel fouling will be an issue except maybe for clean-up. It's the arbor pin and barrel/cylinder interface that will be of interest to me.

Regards,
Mako

[Dick Dastardly]

For C&B shooting I use Big Lube®LLC bullets.  Either the little EPP-UG 150 grain or the conical DD/PUK/ROA-II 210 grain bullets lube/sized for a snug interference fit.  The huge lube grove does it's work same as it does in cartridge guns.  The barrel and parts forward of the chamber are lubricated the guns don't foul out and they keep on working with no need for attention between stages.  And, absolutely no chain fires from the FRONT of the cylinder.

DD-DLoS

[Mason Stillwell]

IMHO Chain fires come from the rear . Check using the correct caps

[Lucky R. K.]

IMHO Chain fires come from the rear . Check using the correct caps

I also believe more chainfires come from the back than from the front.

In the late 1980's I was given an Cenature "1960 New Model Army" made in Belgium.  Every time I took it to the range I got chainfires.  After awhile I put the gun up and forgot about it.  When I retired I decided I was going to make the gun shoot.

Instead of telling all the things I tried i'll cut the story short and tell you how I fixed it.  I have never heard of this solution to a chainfire problem but it fixed mine.

I lowered the seat of the nipples by a few thousands.  The recoil of the gun pushed the other capped nipples into the recoil shield and they would fire.  After lowering the nipple seats the gun has not chainffired.

Have you ever heard of that one Pettifogger?

Lucky 

[Pettifogger]

I also believe more chainfires come from the back than from the front.

In the late 1980's I was given an Cenature "1960 New Model Army" made in Belgium.  Every time I took it to the range I got chainfires.  After awhile I put the gun up and forgot about it.  When I retired I decided I was going to make the gun shoot.

Instead of telling all the things I tried i'll cut the story short and tell you how I fixed it.  I have never heard of this solution to a chainfire problem but it fixed mine.

I lowered the seat of the nipples by a few thousands.  The recoil of the gun pushed the other capped nipples into the recoil shield and they would fire.  After lowering the nipple seats the gun has not chainffired.

Have you ever heard of that one Pettifogger?

Lucky 

I put Ruger nipples in some as they are shorter than the stock nipples.  Then welded the hammer and moved everything forward about .030".

[Fox Creek Kid]

...The recoil of the gun pushed the other capped nipples into the recoil shield and they would fire.  After lowering the nipple seats the gun has not chainffired...

I am sorry but I don't buy that, unless you had a revolver with endshake that was literally off the map. The cylinder cannot "flex" rearward the amount needed to "slap" the caps against the breech face during firing with well fitted caps. The nipples are immobile. This happens with cartridge guns as they are loose in the chambers and it's not uncommon to see primer pocket outlines on the breech face but they do not ignite obviously.

Think for a moment. Where the breech face goes the cylinder goes as well during recoil. The only movement allowed would be that involving cylinder endshake. To have enough endshake to accomplish this the gap would be so great as to never ignite a cap as the hammer would always fall short or push the cylinder forward when it did fall.

[Pettifogger]

I am sorry but I don't buy that, unless you had a revolver with endshake that was literally off the map. The cylinder cannot "flex" rearward the amount needed to "slap" the caps against the breech face during firing with well fitted caps. The nipples are immobile. This happens with cartridge guns as they are loose in the chambers and it's not uncommon to see primer pocket outlines on the breech face but they do not ignite obviously.

Think for a moment. Where the breech face goes the cylinder goes as well during recoil. The only movement allowed would be that involving cylinder endshake. To have enough endshake to accomplish this the gap would be so great as to never ignite a cap as the hammer would always fall short or push the cylinder forward when it did fall.

Actually, on the Centaurs I worked on the problem wasn't the recoil shield.  The problem was the ring on the breech that the ratchet sets into was dimensioned improperly and it was virtually impossible to get a cap on the nipples.  Don't know what they were designed for (maybe an old #9) but no modern cap (CCI, Remington, RWS) would fit.