Some thoughts from a greenhorn

[bowiemaker]

I would like to offer a few thoughts from a greenhorn for your consideration. I have not joined NCOWS yet but I am very interested. I had planned to attend the last shoot of 2010 with our local posse but it was rained out. In waiting for things to start up again in the spring, I have been reading the forums and talking with friends about cowboy shooting. It all sounds like something I really want to get into. I like the historical focus and I like friendly competition on a level playing field. I do not want to get into tricked out guns and high dollar competition. Given that, NCOWS sounds like the right place for me but I do want to at least attend a shoot before I make a commitment.

I do however have some reservations. I read through the by-laws and found it to be confusing regarding shooting classes and requirements. I did misinterpret them. The "Working Cowboy" class is clearly defined as requiring a pistol and a rifle. "Originals" clearly states that participants must have two guns. The requirements for "Pistoleer" are confusing. "Smokeless Shootist" and "Smokeless Duelist" make no mention of anything other than handguns and that led me to believe that only one pistol was required. I was later informed the those classes do indeed require a pistol AND a rifle or shotgun. If that is indeed the case, I would suggest adding a few words to the by-laws to make that clear to those who may be considering joining NCOWS.

The requirement of a pistol and a rifle or shotgun is certainly a consideration in today's economy. To get started, I purchased a used Ruger Vaquero stainless .45 for $450 and that was a pretty big pill for me to swallow. Adding to that a $400 shotgun or $800 for a rifle may end up being a bigger pill than I can swallow. In addition, I will have buy the ammo, at least enough to get started, and then get set up for reloading. Over the course of the year I will also have to invest in period clothing and gun leather which adds at least a couple hundred more, and pay dues.

My main question is why is there not a class for those with one pistol or one rifle? That would greatly reduce the cost of getting started and I have no doubt entice more people to join. While I am sure most cowboys owned both a pistol and a rifle, those living in towns or otherwise living ordinary day to day life did not always carry both. In fact, the great majority of period photographs that I have seen show people carrying a single pistol and no rifle.

In talking with others about cowboy shooting recently I heard two others express the same concerns and had not pursued the matter further because of the cost. At a time when jobs are scarce and it costs $50 to fill up with gas, spending a couple thousand dollars to shoot a few weekends pretty much drops off the radar screen. One fellow I talked to already had a suitable pistol just as I do but the additional cost of a rifle and other gear put it out of reach for him.

I think chances are good that if a person can get started with one gun they will likely go on to adding others guns eventually, if nothing else just to get to shoot more. But they need to get through the door first. Because I have done a little research, I am pretty sure that there will be people at the shoots who would be willing to lend me a rifle so that I could participate but it is not realistic for one to just assume that. Like the fellows I talked to, people who are immediately put off by the initial cost of getting started never get to the point of finding out that people may lend them rifles or they may not be comfortable borrowing guns to shoot.

Thank you for your time. I am looking forward to attending my first shoot soon and if it is everything I think it will be, I hope I can join in and become an active member and supporter of NCOWS.

[Major 2]

Welcome (I hope you will join us)  your point is well taken....
"The "Working Cowboy" class is clearly defined as requiring a pistol and a rifle. "Originals" clearly states that participants must have two guns.The requirements for "Pistoleer" are confusing. "Smokeless Shootist" and "Smokeless Duelist" make no mention of anything other than handguns and that led me to believe that only one pistol was required. I was later informed the those classes do indeed require a pistol AND a rifle or shotgun. If that is indeed the case, I would suggest adding a few words to the by-laws to make that clear to those who may be considering joining NCOWS

If you don't mind & your permission, I'll copy your Thread and discuss your issue & though at the 33rd National Convention next week  

There is a proposal that may address your very concern.  I have proposed a new class , attached
The idea is to address the cost level you have expressed concern for....

[bowiemaker]

Thank you for the fast response. I like your proposal, especially the team aspect. While it does partially address my concern by lowering the cost, it does still require two guns and other gear just to get started. Please feel free to share may post with anyone you wish.

I may be speaking out of turn as I have not yet even attended a NCOWS event. I do not know how the events function and perhaps there is good reasoning to require two guns.  On the other hand, if boosting participation and growing the organization is a goal, I am sure there a lot of people with one gun who would be much more likely to give it a try and maybe first invest in some period clothing if there was a place for them.

I will be anxious to hear the results of your meeting.

[Advertising]

[Major 2]

I have printed your thread and will discuss it at the convention....

Working Cowboy as you read is two gun and is very appealing to many ( with the except of Original class ) the others are 4 guns.
The why ..is a bit more complex reason. Perhaps as the day wears on more will chime in and give you their reasons.

As to cost for your kit... I have friend ( yeah one  ) I got interested in NCOWS , he enjoyed shooting just as past time..
But the theme of Old west shooting was unknown to him.
He was on a strict Budget, so I decide to see just what could be done on a budget.

We found a fellow selling a Remington on the wire ..and bought it for $165 and a Crescent SXS gauge was well under $200
We traveled to a large GOODWILL outlet.... just the one time and on no special prearranged day.
On the rack, a pair of Brown Corduroy dress pants ( Probably Amish )  ( new form Gohn Bros about $18)
Button fly no loops $3 SCORE !  A red cotton pull over shirt  3 buttons,  no collar  $ 2 bucks  SCORE !

A nice derby & sleeve garters were purchased at costume shop the Derby $30 the garters $5 .... another friend had a pair of like new boots $30 yeah that was deal.
$70 the price of dinner out and MT Chambers was Level 1 and closing in on level two ...Oh! I made his leather as a freeby

[River City John]

Smokeless Shootist and Smokeless Duelist are the traditional 2 revolvers, rifle and shotgun.

Working Cowboy is a revolver and rifle, shot using any style hold or powder.

The Originals were conceived as any two NCOWS legal firearms shot using powder appropriate to the date of the persona and firearms used, but after several years of experience shooting the class most all end up using a revolver and rifle. As Senator Books O'Toole pointed out, the few instances where someone used another combination, it was a scoring nightmare. How do you score shooting when someone uses, say, two shotguns and everyone else a revolver and rifle? For this reason there is a motion before the Congress to officially make the class a one revolver and a rifle, which makes it similar as Working Cowboy but with the addition of juried documentation of your persona by your peers. The Originals assumes a duelist hold would be used, as that was the shooting style taught in the 19th century, but I don't believe there is any wording prescribing such in the rules.

Pistoleer is another 2 revolver, rifle and shotgun class, but restrictions to use of early firearms, pre 1872, and use of black powder and duelist hold.

By all means, we'd love to have you as a member, and you're right to go slow, - and you'll be able to get a lot of helpful tips from our membership on outfitting. Our Convention in March in Kansas City is a good place to do some bargain shopping, too.

RCJ

[Patrick Henry Brown]

Major

Great proposal. We've been running a Sodbuster catagory for several months now at the Peacemakers. It has been well received and has created no problems that I am aware of. In fact, it has enhanced our shoots. I, too, like the team idea.

[Major 2]

Oscar

Thanks 

[Pancho Peacemaker]

bowiemaker,

There are lots of avenues for folks to get in this sport on a budget.  The best is to attend some matches.  At the clubs I attend, we always have folk with some used guns for sale or trade.  You might inquire with your local club leadership if they have some "loaner" guns for newbies.  Most clubs keep some spare guns around for newbies.

Also, try to attend the convention or national shoot.  You'll find new and used gear available from a variety of vendors at both.

For clothing take a look at Hamiliton Dry Goods.  They offer a simple starter period clothing outfit for under $70.  The Hamiltons have always been great NCOWS supporters.

Lastly,  take a look at the classified ads here and on the SASS wire.  There always lots of good deals on used equipment at both locations.

[lethal larry]

You have some good questions, pard. At my home club we recognized over a year ago the problem that requiring 4 guns could cause $$$ wise so we started offering the Working Cowboy (an official category in NCOWS) even for our SASS matches. It requires 1 revolver and 1 rifle.  We also started a "Sod Buster" category which is 1 revolver, and 1 shotgun, no rifle. Shotguns are less expensive than rifles so that will save a shooter money. The Sod Buster is just one more way for folks on a budget to get into the sport somewhat cheaper. And reloading your ammo will save you a LOT of $!. Welcome to the game!

[Will Ketchum]

Bowiemaker, I would like to join the pard welcoming you to our fire.  I have been doing this cowboy thing for about 17 years now.  Ever since my very first shoot people made me feel welcome and offered me guns and gear that I needed.  Over the years I have seen this continue and almost always have extra guns in my vehicle to lend  As others have suggested attend a shoot with a friend and see what it's about  You will probably end up shooting with borrowed guns and gear.

You don't mention where you live.  If you live near some other NCOWs member I can give you their contact information.  If they are like most everyone I know in NCOWS they will happy to answer any questions and get you started. 

I have know people to share guns.  The thing they need to do is let the person running their posse know so they can split you up enough to get ready.

Feel free to send me a personal message if you like.

Will Ketchum
Current NCOWS Secretary

[bowiemaker]

Thanks for the welcome and the tips. I am in Louisville, KY so I am only about 20 mile from the Johnson County Rangers. One of their members is a good friend who got me interested in the first place. We hope to go to the National shoot in June since that is only a couple of hours from us.

[Books OToole]

Thanks for the welcome and the tips. I am in Louisville, KY so I am only about 20 mile from the Johnson County Rangers. One of their members is a good friend who got me interested in the first place. We hope to go to the National shoot in June since that is only a couple of hours from us.

Bowiemaker;

Several members of the Johnson County Rangers are coming to the NCOWS Convention in KC.  You should start calling and share a ride.  You won't regret it.

Books

[Will Ketchum]

Bowiemaker, all the Johnson County Rangers that I know are good Ol Boys and will do to ride the river with.  I sure hope you get a chance to attend the convention.

Will Ketchum

[bowiemaker]

I don't think I will be able to make the convention but the national shoot in Evansville looks good. Whay are the national shoot and convention held separtealy?

[Will Ketchum]

Bowiemaker, a good question.  The March convention is also a pretty big gun and Victorian sale.  We do some drinking of adult beverages and have a nice banquet.  The main reason is for a meeting of the congress. Most of all we just enjoy spending time with our friends and fellow members.  We used to have a congress meeting at the National shoot but these days we don't usually have enough business to justify 2 meetings.

If you can find anyway to attend the convention even for one day (I would suggest Saturday)  it would be well worth your time.  There won't be nearly as many vendors at the shoot as the convention.

Will Ketchum

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Bowiemaker,

There is so much I want to say, but most echoes the previous posts. The main issue is that 'If you build it they will come'.  Corny but to the point.

I could say I was in your shoes but that sounds like so much hogwash. Lte me say that I was 60 plus, unemployed with a couple of yeards to go before Social Security kicked in. And I was watching my AIG 'retirement' 401K shrink with every month. I finally realizedthat if I just pulled the moneyy our of my 401K, the resale of the firearms would probably restore to me more worth than after the 401K reached its final fall.

So I sent an email to my local Terrirtorail Governor and asked if he know of any Shofields for sale ... his reply was, well I might have a couple. So I got some dialed in Schofields with real Sambar grips and brass front sites for less than one new Uberti.

I got a Model 94 winchester and an old Baikal for less than $400 ... and they styed together until they were replaced with a Cap coyote Model 87 and a Codymatic Model 73 ... that shoots Schofield!

The moral of all this is that most people have a few 'skeleton' guns lying around that they would not mind selling cheap.

Or, like me, they have an old SXS and Model 94 that they would loan out until you can afford to buy the rest.

So, just do it and the Big Guy will bring the weapons to you ....

[Cliff Fendley]

I have one concern on the Sodbuster class that I think should be considered and that is not to limit the type of shotgun as long as it's an NCOWS approved gun. Why are we making a class that will make it more inexpensive for a member to get in to and then put a limit on the shotgun (no pump shotguns)? It just doesn't make sense to me to create an economical class and then turn around and put limits that can cost some people more.

For example I have an old 97 I bought a while back thinking I might want to add a shotgun to my shooting, I gave 180 bucks for it, it's nothing to look at but it's a tight old gun and functions well. Bowiemaker could use it and with his revolver would be set for sodbuster and he and I could shoot as a team.

The more options you leave open to people the cheaper it is. The more rules it gets more expensive. We found that out the hard way years ago truck pulling and started stock classes. The next thing you know we were spending more money tricking out our stock motors and trucks than if we had built tube chassis and aftermarket blower motors to start. In order for a person to particapate and expect to compete at all they had to spend even more or know how to do a bunch of it themselves.

What I'm saying is to participate the more options you have the more likely you will stumble up on something for a good price or just happen to have one already.

[Ima Sure Shot]

Bowiemaker,
 Some of the Johnson Co. Rangers are good 'ole girls as well.  We will be glad to see you at a shoot.   Come prepared to have fun.  It is always more fun to shoot than to watch.  Look foreward to meeting you.  Celeste

[Will Ketchum]

Oops!   You know you are amonget my favorite good'ole gals.  No offence intended.

Pete

Bowiemaker,
 Some of the Johnson Co. Rangers are good 'ole girls as well.  We will be glad to see you at a shoot.   Come prepared to have fun.  It is always more fun to shoot than to watch.  Look foreward to meeting you.  Celeste

[Cliff Fendley]

Ima, I'm trying to talk my wife into coming and joining you girls but I haven't convinced her yet. She likes shooting but doesn't want to dress up. Heck that's the fun part. If I can talk her into coming to watch I think with some help we'll be able to set the hook.