Crisco or Felt wads?

[ZVP]

 Just wondering which do you choose when shooting for accuracy?
 It's been my experience that Crisco seems to shoot the most accuratelly from Colt Open Top revolvers and the Wads seem to be the best (accuracy wise) in the Remington-type revolver.
 I have found the Felt Wads make for the easiest clean-up. They literally swab the barrel!
 ZVP

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I used to put Crisco over the balls of my C&B revolvers when I was a kid about forty years ago. Once I discovered felt wads about ten years ago I never bothered with Crisco again. Much too messy.

Usually, the heat of one chamber firing completely melts the Crisco in front of the ball in the next chamber. As such, a thin runny layer of melted Crisco will provide much less insurance against a chain fire than a nice thick felt wad over the powder. If there is any significant dent or nick in the ball, such that it does not get completely smoothed over when the ball is pressed in place, it can leave a nice void that an errant spark can follow down to the powder charge. A felt wad in the way makes a much better spark arrestor than a thin runny layer of melted Crisco. A chain fire can surprise the dickens out of you. Trust me on this.

[Mogorilla]

I'm with driftwood.  I started shooting C&B 15 years ago, read around and did the crisco.  After shooting on an 80 degree day, not remotely the warmest day I had planned on shooting, I had ruined a shirt and pants with the nasty melted stuff.   Switched to the wads.  I have only experienced 1 chain fire, and seen two others.(both of them the same guy, the same day.)  Mine I am 100% convinced was caused by a poor fitting cap.  As I fired, I noted the next cylinder did not have a cap on it.  Boom, then boom boom.  Three cylinders went, only one down the pipe.  I had severe chunk of lead on the wedge.   The gun survived, as did I.  The other two, well it was a new shooter who knew it all.  At this point, I wasn't young enough to know it all, so I tried to help.  He had a brass frame colt clone, filled the cylinders with powder, rammed a ball down on top (I am estimating about 40 grains of BP compressed).  Several times he had jams as the balls would not seat enough to rotate the cylinder.   He experienced two chain fires that day, not sure if it was caps, poorly seated balls or what.   Anyway, he didn't have room for wads or crisco.   After two shoots and some practices inbetween, he ruined the gun.   Missouri gets too hot in the summer to use crisco effectively.  I know guys swear by it, but they use a 50/50 with bee's wax.   that keeps it solid enough.  I actually ordered the wrong thing a few months ago and have these little wax plugs of lube.  I use them like the wads, directly over the powder (I am shooting right off, so no long term storage that way).  work great.   I will say I loaded a cylinder in March, 25 grains BP, a wad and a 454 ball for my colt army.  Let the 5 chambers sit, capped for the entire summer.  A real humid day in august, they all went boom and in the general vacinity I wanted them to.  It was me shooting, so well accuracy is subjective at that point.   The Jayhawkers got the picture and retreated back to Lawrence.

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[Dick Dastardly]

When shooting my 44 Cal open tops or ROAs, I don't use either wads or crisco.  I simply dump in powder and seat a lube/sized EPP-UG or DD/PUK/ROA-II big lube bullet.  They carry all the lube you could use, and then some.  The lube/sized bullets give a nice snug interference fit and there is no possibility of chain fire from the front of the cylinder face.

These bullets are both very easy and convenient to use, give tack driving accuracy and assure complete safety from chain fire.  Since they are lube/sized just like cartridge bullets, they make loading a snap and cleanup quick and easy.

DD-DLoS

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Accuracy?  Don't matter much.  I always load/shoot for both accuracy and serviceability.  I use a grease over the ball, which is set over a homemade greased wad.

My grease isn't Crisco - never used it.  It seems to work OK, (except in VERY hot or PRETTY cold) but as Driftwood pointed out, most of the Crisco is gone after a shot or two.  I've used a LOT of a commercial over-the counter stuff called "Spit Ball."  It is retained MUCH more after firing on adjacent cylinders, but I've also used a fair amount of my own grease, which is basically beeswax plus olive oil.  It doesn't stay as well as the Spit Ball, however - more than Crisco, but still most is blown away or melted by other firing.  That's why I use the lubed wads - which I punch out with a punch I bought from Harbor Freight, and uses the same grease I mentioned.  Yes ... over-ball grease IS messy, but I don't mind and I have shot MANY times at either matches or practice and firing 75-85 or even a hundred shots with NO appreciable crud, save what is easily wiped off with a patch or rag and withOUT dis-assembly.

[Montana Slim]

I've used both & gone back to basics....I'm a lube over the top guy...ie, criso on top of my balls

First off, I'm not worried about a chain fire from the "front" end of the piece....I've had all six go off at once & learned that chain-fires are a result of poor fitting caps and/or sloppy powder handling (yeah, I started with these things as a kid, too). haste and spilleage equals waste....and a chain-fire.

Ok, why lube over the top?....well, any wad that has lube in it has the potential to contaminate the powder...yes, I had this happen once at a match & it cost me several misses...so much for that experiment. I also recommmend just a dab of lube on top. Applying a glob does nothing but make a mess as you shoot. You only need a bit to keep things running smooth. Also, make an attempt to smooth it around the periphery of the ball. A small amount, spread around will not run or drip out into your holster, etc. During the exceptionally hot months, you can add some of the very thick bore-butter, beeswax, or tallow to your criso to stiffen it up a bit.

With clean, dry chambers...I can load my revolvers, cap..... & fire them today, tomorrow or in six months and have complete confidence in their performance (with or without lube on the top). However, I would not have this confidence if loaded with a lubed-wad (commercial or home-made) between powder & ball.

Regards,
Slim

[Fingers McGee]

Wads.

And Maryann. 

FM

[Noz]

Chain fires DO occur from the front of the cylinder. I make Pearl Lube as per Dick Dastardly's recipe. I heat it and soak the homemade felt wads in it. It solidifies and no powder contamination occurs.

[Fox Creek Kid]

We've had this discussion about chain fires before & I have NEVER seen any evidence that chain fires are from the front if a properly oversized soft lead projectile is used. From the rear is where most occur. Bad nipples & ill fitting caps.

[Montana Slim]

We've had this discussion about chain fires before & I have NEVER seen any evidence that chain fires are from the front if a properly oversized soft lead projectile is used. From the rear is where most occur. Bad nipples & ill fitting caps.

Yup...& to add...I've had more than one chain fire & am convinced they were all from the rear. I've also observed a few others with chain fires & see they were from the rear of the cylinder as well. The only one I've seen resulting from the front of the cylinder was during a renactment (firing "blanks").....I noticed the fellow loading used waaay too much powder, too little florist foam & had spilled powder all over the front end of that cylinder....He was rather shocked by the event (& it was), but I really wasn't surprised.

Slim

[Noz]

We've had this discussion about chain fires before & I have NEVER seen any evidence that chain fires are from the front if a properly oversized soft lead projectile is used. From the rear is where most occur. Bad nipples & ill fitting caps.

The key in this answer is "soft lead projectile". My front end chain fires came from too hard an alloy with casting flaws. In all cases, the chamber that fired had a live cap on the nipple after the chain fire occured.   Only took four of them for me to figure it out.  No I don't stay in Holiday Inns.

[Mossyrock]

Wads.

And Maryann. 

FM

Concur!!   (On both counts!)   

[Crow Choker]

Used all kinds of grease, 'potions', etc back in the early days of C an'B shooting, always on the hunt for one that wouldn't melt and/or blow after the first shot or two. Never did find the 'magic grail'. When I started using felt wads I wondered why I never used then earlier. Buy em' in the 1000 piece bag now, even soak em most of the time in a bees wax, tallow, parifin mix. Bought some steel punches a while back, plan on gettin some felt sheets and 'punchin' out my own. Old felt hats at 'junk' stores, rummage sales, etc. work too if right texture. Greasing the ends of the cylinders is to time consuming and messier than eatin a Hearsy bar thats been on yer dash in the sun. As far as accraucy-never checked, but at the distances I shoot and the style, I don't believe it is of any concern-Yer not gonna get groups  you can get from a cartridge hawgleg, whether using black or smokeless. Never had a chain fire, saw one once years ago from a brass frame '51 Navy a shootin pard was using. All the way with felt-don't care if they didn't use em back in the day, they would if they had been available, maybe they were, somebody else will have to ya or nay that one.

[Noz]

http://www.durofelt.com

They'll sell you enough of the proper type of felt for less than $20 that will last you for a couple of years of hard shooting. Just tell them what you are doing. Harbor Freight has hollow punches. I use the 11mm size for my 1860 Armys.

[hellgate]

I use the 7/16" hole punch for the 44s and the 3/8" one for the 36s. I chuck the punch in the drill press at low speed and punch them out against a chunk of hardwood. You can buy automotive felt (wool) from felt companies. Ask for their scraps and you'll get real good prices. I get F-1 1/8" felt but 3/16" will also do. Then I melt 50/50 beeswax and either olive oil or tallow in a pan and dump in the wads till they soak it all  up.

[Fox Creek Kid]

The problem is that if your chambers are reamed (larger) it is tough to use a lubed card wad and still get good compression in a .44 per my guns. I am talking a 22 to 25 gr. load of BP here. I get better compression (read velocity) when I use a grits filler.

[Montana Slim]

Another small issue using felt/lube soaked wads..... If you have a stiff lube & you're going to fire all 5 rounds now (ie typical cowboy shoot), you'll get by fine. But, if you're out on a hot day & fire several rounds (but not empty), you can heat the lube to the melting point & it can degrade the powder in the remaining rounds....it may & likely will fire, but you'll have a weak load. I've had that happen. I realize most reading this forum are only discussing these firearms for CAS use...but, I've used them extensively for all type of use for many years & prefer them generally over cartridge revolvers.

Slim

[Crow Choker]

Ref Noz: Thanks for the sheet felt web-site. I think it's the one someone gave me about a year ago, but I lost the paper I had written it on. The punch set I bought has sizes from 3/4" to 1/8", think there are around 10 of them. They are pretty good quality, got a good price on them.
Ref Montana Slim: I've had to alter the time of year  when shooting the lube soaked wads. Never had or noticed any powder problems in hot weather, but when first using them(with overly soaked wads), they were about as messy as greasing the cylinder. In colder weather they got pretty hard, so I've had to guage the amount I 'soak em' with the time of year and temperature. I've found a pretty good ratio of how much to soak vs time of year/temp vs lube recipe.