"Aged Guns and gear"

[Col.Will B.Havoc]

One area of our sport that i really don't understand yet it amuses me. Why do companies produce and people
buy guns and other gear that is "Antique finish" or "distressed"? We are trying to reproduce an era. The Guns
were new or relatively so at the time. No one with any respect for his weapons would not let them get pitted or rusted.
Or let their leather gear wear out. Poor condition equipment could cost you your life!

[Major 2]

Understanding is as simple as $$ ..It's a niche and it does sell..

Were we might expect see some holster wear to the guns finish or some aging to leather ( daily use ,in extreme weather changes)
Not on the scale, of 100+ years of rapid aged Antique finish" or "distressing in the time period when the guns were new technology.

The why it sells is another question. 

It's a personal thing I suppose....

[panhead pete]

Mornin' Col.,

I agree with your concept of replicating the era.  I am sure the townies, gunmen and military would have clean and well maintained pieces.  I do however wonder how well a firearms finish and leather would fare after three months on the trail strapped to a cowboys waist.  Rain, sweat, dust, sun and little or no time for cleaning.  Interesting question, for sure.

Regards,

Panhead Pete

[Advertising]

[St. George]

For one thing - folks are gullible as hell...

Most of the period-original firearms they've seen have been in museums, where they've developed an additional patina (read 'rust') and during the intervening years, the original finish has plummed out or has faded in the sun.

I always thought that the 'distressed' items being put on the market were weapons that failed the Quality Control inspections for finish, and rather than strip and re-finish the piece, someone in Italy decided that Americans'd buy anything with enough hype - so they floated a test balloon with some evocative background items and they sold.

Leather will stain and stretch - finishes will suffer at the high points - but over time and honest use.

There are still weapons that served the length and breadth of the American Frontier that are in 'excellent' condition, so a 'well-cared-for' piece would be more in keeping than an 'artificially antiqued' piece.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Major 2]

I have a Colt 2nd Gen. 1860 Army I carried on horseback Cavalry Reenacting from (NIB 1977- 2003 some 26 years.
I still have it, Ivory Grips (a 9 O'Clock) now sporting a Conversion cylinder.

At 3 O'clock in the same photo is my original 1860 Army, Lettered to the 5th Iowa Cavalry in 1862.....

you will note the finishes.... The 2 Gen. saw 8 or more events a year, numerous living history events and carried in several film rolls.

The original is lettered, it saw service.

[Percussion Pete]

It's not hard to understand.

Some of us like the worn out look. 

[bluejay]

Some of us like the worn out look.

Yes

I have a Cattleman, antiqued version. If my great grandfather had bought one in the 1800's, and it was still in the family after all these years, it would look like the one I have.

I showed it to a friend of mine who has handled, owned, and sold 1873's over the years. I told him it was a Uberti reproduction. He didn't believe me until I showed him the markings under the barrel. To top it off, it is in perfect mechanical condition and doesn't need a gunsmith or restorer.

It all boils down to "it is just an option". If you are making a Western movie, it maybe isn't as authentic looking in that context. If you are making a more modern movie, or a futuristic movie, it is real authentic.

[Jamie]

This is just a "for what it's worth" comment, but I really doubt that the guns in the real old West stayed looking as pristine anywhere near as long as they do today, at least if they were being carried and used much at all.  Reading stories about individuals hunting in Alaska (no doubt one of the toughest conditions on firearms out there) the author always adds comments about how impossible it was to protect the guns, even stainless firearms suffer.  Most of those hunts are relatively short term - one to two weeks at most, and pictures of relatively new firearms show the abuse clearly, in spite of claims of complete stripdown and thorough drying out and preservative applications of various oils and specialized lubricants - or as Popeye would say - "Lubrikinks."  I can only imagine that the abuse of holster carry in a permanent state - I doubt that many of the folks who carried on a regular basis took their guns out of the holsters much except for cleaning or shooting - was pretty detrimental to finishes.  Consider first of all the nature of leather and its ability to hold water, and then add in the fact that if a gun was fired and put back in the holster, there was a continuously growing residue of black powder building up in the holster, and impregnating the leather.  What's that going to do after getting caught in a rainstorm or even in extremely humid weather!?  I realize that much of the West is drier than the East in terms of humidity, but any "using" guns, handguns or rifles or shotguns in scabbards, or leather cases were subject to considerable abuse. I've read of situations where guns were unable to fire due to rusting up of internal parts - not the norm I'm sure, but...
Most of what we do with guns today is pretty casual in comparison, yet on the relatively few times I carry a shotgun out, turkey hunting, deer hunting, grouse, rabbit and squirrel hunting, I can wear off the bluing at the carry point in a couple of years.  Yes I do keep my guns clean, so even steel receivers are not allowed to grow any ruse, but the finish is polished off.  What would happen to a gun carried daily and subject to the wear and tear of relatively poor fitting holsters, especially while bouncing on horseback, not to mention a rifle in a saddle scabbard?  Again, rust might not be allowed to grow, but the finish is going to go, and it isn't going to take as long as it does today. 
Finally, while firearms were important, they were probably treated with as much concern as some people invest in their cars today.  There are those that you chase in order to buy their used vehicles because you know they're prime, but others?  Care is important, yes, but hey, why change the oil before the light comes on?  It sounds stupid, but people do it.  Even intelligent individuals buy into the idea that they don't need to change the oil more than every 5 to 6000 miles.  (I don't buy a car from a dealer that tells me that, and the guys that I buy from just shake their heads at the thought.)  People are people then and now, and I suspect that many, perhaps the majority of firearms of the time got relatively little care in comparison to the ones we cherish and carefully play with today.  On the other hand, there were certainly others that were purchased, and stuffed in drawers, under counters, and so forth, and those are the ones we so desperately hope to find at yard sales etc.
I suspect that a large percentage of guns probably DID look like the ones that are "aged" or "distressed" that are available today, and I doubt that it took them long to get there.  Reasonable care might well have kept them from rusting (patina) but the bluing and case hardening probably didn't last long in terms of complete coverage on many of them.
Well, this was a long ramble but the question peaked my interest, and you're welcome to your opinion as well - I'll even grant that you might be "righter" than me!  Just interested speculation.
Jamie

[Percussion Pete]

I guess the bottom line is some of like to think we have an original gun. I'd have to win the lottery to afford an original, and then i might be a little worried about shooting it as much as CAS demands. Most of the originals i see look just like my Uberti version and I like that.

[Adirondack Jack]

Every seen 1960's vintage S&W revolvers carried daily for 30 years by a downtown beat cop?  Even in that kind of use, they get pretty ratty.  A revolver carried in hemlock tanned leather, rain or shine, dust or snow, on horseback, would get ratty a lot quicker.

Rifles carried in a scabbard, well-soaked in horse sweat and coated with sand would look "charming" after one cattle drive....

I like the "well-worn" look.

[Abilene]

I like fancy shiny guns and I like worn-looking guns.  This set includes a 109-year-old Colt that I've put over 2000 rounds through.  It's mate is an original-finish Cimarron.  I antiqued the TTN scattergun, and black powder is doing a pretty good job on the '66 frame, although I still need to strip the shiny finish off of the wood on that one.

[Percussion Pete]

Nice. Really nice.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I tend to agree with my old pard AJ. A gun that gets carried continually will get a worn look pretty quick. Another thing that has not been mentioned is that the blue applied to guns in the 19th Century was nowhere near as rugged as modern blue. I used to have a Cimarron Cattleman that had their charcoal blue. This was an approximation of a 19th Century blue. It was beautiful to look at, a robin's egg blue, but the finish was not durable at all. After less than a year my sweaty hand had completely removed all the blue from the backstrap, leaving it a dull gray of the raw steel. That is exactly what would have happened to a brand new 19th Century gun, no matter how much care you took of it.

And although some of you may cringe when I say this, not everybody cleans their guns everytime they shoot them. It ain't a crime, some of us just don't like cleaning guns.

Now lastly, here is a photo of one of my Colts. No, it is not an antique, it is a 2nd Gen made in 1968. When I bought it a number of years ago, some previous owner had completely stripped the finish off of it. Even the case hardening colors were almost all gone. But I got it for a good price, and figured I would refinish it someday. Well, that worn look grew on me, and since I shoot nothing but Black Powder through it, and since I do not clean it immediately after shooting it, it has aged quite a bit. Notice the nice plumb brown on the barrel and ejector housing. I wouldn't dream of refinishing this gun now, it has aged naturally to a very nice patina, and I like it just fine just like it is.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

  Driftwood, I have to agree, that is a dandy looking Colt, almost looks like my Granddads 5 1/2" Colt, his didn't have much if any blue left on the gun, but it was well cared for and kept up, he wore his every day while he was a rancher, therefore wearing a sixgun daily will put the wear on a finish pretty quick.

    Always good to hear your opinions and know how on things Driftwood, thanks for sharing pard

              tEN wOLVES

[Curley Cole]

Well here is my attempt at antiquing my gun. It is a EMF Dakota kit gun, I finished it to look old and I think I succeded. It started out with brass tg/bs that I hated and finally got some grips and an ASM tg/bs to fit.
Second pix is of my gun on a book showing one of Doc Hollidays gunz. They are almost identical in finish...
next is the antiqued finish on the EMF Remington 75 from the factory.

Driftwood...Don't do nuttin to that Colt it is a beauty.
curley

[Adirondack Jack]

Here's one of mine.



This ruger started out as a CCB frame, but it rusted if you ran water in the next room or looked at it with glistening eyes.  0000 and oil removed the rust, leaving mangey bald patches.  So I plum browned it with Birchwood Casey's stuff, and honestly, wasn't real impressed at first because it came out a little too flamboyant...  But in time, with use, oiling and wiping, then just a lot of use and darn little care, I think it has setted in nicely.

[Two Spurs]

I've thought about this a few times myself.  Points have been well made about "new back then" and "get worn out in a hurry" due to various conditions.  All valid. My thinking/choice runs a mixture of both.  I treat mine reasonabaly well, but don't get overly concerend when they start developing their own "character"- a scratch or scuff  here or there, etc. Like has been said, everyone probably held a different school of thought in this regards. THAT's what is so cool about going to a large shoot- to see the variety of iron and leather and also to see how different folks put their own "personality" in to the game.     

[pzlehr]

Hi,
     My first post     I have a Uberti Cattleman that has that ugly matte finish.  What are the best and easiest way to "antique" it?  I am not sure if the matte is any different than blue in terms of removal.  I have read where people use mustard on the gun to remove bluse and give it a "old" look,  a few used vinegar, one used muriatic acid.  Which way is best and safest as far as the innards of the gun goes?  Does one always have to use a plum brown application?  I hate to sound like I have to be taken by the hand but I cringe thinking I'll goof it up.  Thanks in advance!!

Chuck

[Cliff Fendley]

I understand we are replicating the era which is why I don't get too carried away doing any aging but making a holster and belt have the color and look of one that has already seen a year or so use makes sense if you don't want the new look because otherwise it will never look that way just wearing it to shoots on the weekends.

You don't want it looking a hundred years old but a year or so of every day use will show plenty of wear and tear.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Hi,
     My first post  Smiley   I have a Uberti Cattleman that has that ugly matte finish.  What are the best and easiest way to "antique" it?  I am not sure if the matte is any different than blue in terms of removal.  I have read where people use mustard on the gun to remove bluse and give it a "old" look,  a few used vinegar, one used muriatic acid.  Which way is best and safest as far as the innards of the gun goes?  Does one always have to use a plum brown application?  I hate to sound like I have to be taken by the hand but I cringe thinking I'll goof it up.  Thanks in advance!!

Howdy

We used to have a cowboy in these parts named Longshot Logan. Longshot was a great guy and always fun to be around. Unfortunately he passed away a few years ago. Longshot enjoyed woodworking and he also worked out a pretty good method for distressing the finish on modern guns. I am including a link to his webpage, which is still up. Longshot has a two slightly different methods that he would use on handguns. His directions are simple and well thought out.

http://members.cox.net/longshot_logan/

However.....you must take into account that you are talking about a gun with a matte finish. Most guns are highly polished before they are blued. So even as the blue wears, the metal underneath with still be smooth and highly polished. As they wear longer, they will usually gain nicks, scratches, and dents too. In addition there may be some pitting caused by rusting over the years. All of these defects will be naturally occurring, and will be more or less random in appearance. As the gun ages naturally, wherever the blue wears away, there will usually be some untouched, smooth metal underneath. It may take on a gray appearance from oxidation, but barring any pitting or scratches, it will still be smooth.

With a matte finish such as yours, the metal itself has been given a matte appearance before the blue was applied. This may have been done by bead blasting, or some other method. But rather than having a highly polished finish before the blue was applied, the metal already had a very even, unnatural matte surface. Then the blue was applied. That's why Uberti and others can offer the matte finished guns cheaper than their usual high polished blue finishes. Polishing a gun is labor intensive. It is done by hand on buffing wheels. It is much quicker and cheaper to put a gun in a bead blasting booth and spray it down. Probably only takes a few minutes for each gun. Polishing takes much longer, so it is more expensive. I don't know this for sure, but I would bet the actual bluing process for both finishes is the same.

So I can't guarantee that Longshot's method will remove your blue. I suspect it will. If it does, you are still going to have the matte finish left on the bare metal. Whatever you do, it is not going to look very natural unless you first polish the metal to a shine, and then distress it.

Which is probably more work than you really want to do.