Billy the Kid's 1873 Winchester

[RRio]

The Spring 2010 issue of Guns of the Old West touches on the Kid's guns, leather and has a CSI-type computer enhanced photo of the one Del posted that brings out a lot of details. I thought it was worth the cover price just for that.

[Stillwater]

The 1873 Carbine in the museum is not Billy's carbine.  Here in NM we seem to have Billy's carbine hanging on a number of walls!

I'll bet there is a bunch of them too...

Bill

[Rube Burrows]

In Denis Adler's book Guns of the American West there is the whole pics with and without color that the GOTOW mag got the pic from. Its a pretty neat pic all cleaned up.

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[kflach]

I suppose it's possible that Billy owned or used more than one gun...

[St. George]

If you look at the weak provenance of many of the museum collections and the older private ones - a lot of things were taken on faith - with no more 'proof' than 'he said...'

While working as a sports reporter in St. Louis, Bat Masterson would buy guns from pawn shops and sell them as 'his' to a public inflamed by the dime novel exploits who wanted 'something' from him.

Sold a bunch, too.

Frank James sold barrels full of 'Jesse's Guns'.

'Provenance' didn't become critical until the middle-to-late 1970's - and a helluva lot of collectors found they'd wasted money on common stuff - based on some seller's 'recollection'.

Today - we can take deeper looks into old photos to get a greater idea of exactly 'what' the individual has in their hands, and we 'sometimes' acknowledge that what they're dressed as and what they're displaying likely belong to a photographer's studio as photographic props.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Trailrider]

  Billy allegedly used a M1877 Colt's DA .41LC.  Bill Mackin, author of "Cowboy and Gunfighter Collectables" used to show up at Denver gun shows with Colt's Lightnings (.38 LC) and Thunderers (.41LC) that he proudly labelled as "the ONLY '77 DA's that DID NOT BELONG TO BILLY-THE-KID!"    I guess that's because a lot of folks would claim their '77 DA's belonged to Billy.

[liten]

getn back to handsome guy in the pic, ive heard that photo isnt billy the kid at all,

[Stillwater]

getn back to handsome guy in the pic, ive heard that photo isnt billy the kid at all,

From several books that I have read, the picture has been authenticated. I'm not saying that from my own knowledge. I'm saying what I have read in several well respected books.

Bill

[liten]

whoops  thats wrong ! thats the only undisputed image of billy the kid ,  was taken in 1880  outside a saloon in texas

[Stillwater]

whoops  thats wrong ! thats the only undisputed image of billy the kid ,  was taken in 1880  outside a saloon in texas

I don't think you are right...!

Robert M. Utley, the director of the History Department at the University of New Mexico, has written many history books about the Old West. Utley's book about "Billy the Kid," contained that picture. Utley, along with many other qualified hisorians, identified the picture of "Billy the Kid," standing with his Winchester, as being the only known, authenticated, picture of the Kid...!

There are several other pictures, claimed to be a pictures of "Billy the Kid."  However, the one standing with the rifle is the only one authenticated to be "Billy the Kid."

Bill

[liten]

yes your right its the only pic thats not under dispute

[Herbert]

Has anyone got the information how the photo was authenticated

[liten]

puting aside his murderous ways he was quite a likeable chap apparently, and wasnt short of frends and even had 4 girlfriends in his lifetime, so anynumber of people could identified the photo

[Herbert]

it is just what i have read so many things about the kid do not ad up ,the descriptions given by mrs john chisum,mrs james brent and governor lew wallace  dont seem to fit the phot,even the story of his death was described difrentl by john w poe years later in a interview,tia deluvina also insisted years later that the boy killed was not billy,all these people defintaly knew what bill looked licke.It just seems there is a bluring of myth and fact about billy but there also must be some hard evidance after all he was put up in front of a court there must be a oficial description somwere or evadance that the photo is the real thing by somone who did not have a stack in the story,this is what makes this story so interesting to me the more i find out the further away the truth is from the myth,is there a very well reserched book about this ,the story has got me intriged

[liten]

and as time marches on the less chance we will no the truth, think we gota except it was him that was shot by pat garrett, he you the kid well, so sure im he knew who he  shot, and dont forget the kid  wasnt as famous as he is now , so garrett had no reason to  be untruth full about what happened

[Herbert]

and as time marches on the less chance we will no the truth, think we gota except it was him that was shot by pat garrett, he you the kid well, so sure im he knew who he  shot, and dont forget the kid  wasnt as famous as he is now , so garrett had no reason to  be untruth full about what happened

I do belive that Garerett kiled Billy but acording to Johon W Poes inteview years later Garrett had a good reason for telling a difrent story,shootimg an unarmed man in bed even then was conciderd unsporting then there was the 500 dollars,a lot of money in those days,there must have been some dought as Garrett had trouble colecting the reward,it seems that from day one the facts were geting blerd,and the myth had already begain.I just read another interview with J W Poe and it seems to be the one that is acepted as what realy hapened,i will have to try to check weather the shot in bed story realy came from Poe as the two stories are so difrent somthing is not right

[liten]

i read the kid was armed and standing by his bed , i no for a fact garrett was scared of billy , so shoting him when he was asleep could be right, anyway it but garrett in the history books , a coward or a hero which is it?

[FEATHERS]

I watched a doco on Billy the Kid,on the History channel,in it they mention Bushy Bob Roberts as being the Kid & passing away in 1950? Does anyone have more info on this side of the story? Also the guy involved in this doco was trying to get permission to take a DNA sample from Billy's grave then compare it to a sample from his mother's known grave.Any thoughts on this???

[Stillwater]

I watched a doco on Billy the Kid,on the History channel,in it they mention Bushy Bob Roberts as being the Kid & passing away in 1950? Does anyone have more info on this side of the story? Also the guy involved in this doco was trying to get permission to take a DNA sample from Billy's grave then compare it to a sample from his mother's known grave.Any thoughts on this???

Brushy Bill Roberts was much taller, had swarthy skin and brown eyes.

Billy the kid was 5'7" tall, with a fair complexion and blue eyes.

If you see a side by side comparison of their pictures, You'll see there is quiet a big difference.

Do like I did, google Billy the kid and read through the Web Sites that come up.

Bill

[liten]

garret shot him ,and thats an end to it, lots of other world mystres to be solved yet