EDITED: Maybe I should reconsider? "Slugged my barrel today"

[Bryan Austin]

Ok, edited to try and keep the confusion down and at least make it look like I know what I am doing 

I currently have two Uberti 1858 Remingtons with 8" barrels. I have both C&B and conversion cylinders.

Cylinder chamber mouth is .450

Slugging with a 45 cal 200 grain bullet.
Bullet base is .451
Slug groove - again, bullet did not fill the groove. However, bullet base expanded to .454 probably from the hammer tapping. Halfway up the bullet expanded to .452

Now, taking a .454 ball and tapping it on a hard surfaced cause it to mushroom a little. Now I used this to slug the barrel and it filled the groove. Groove measured two .456's and one .457

Ok Maybe I should reconsider?

Today, 26 Dec 2008, I shot two groups of five .454 balls and one group of 45 colt. Each group was five shots. 25 yard target but set to 10 yards. No cleaning between groups. Two groups of balls then one group of 45 colts.

1. Balls - Hornady .454 w/30 grains Pyrodex P and wonder wads
2. Bullets - J/P Big Lube .452 w/40 grains Pyrodex P
3. From a rest on a forked stick, gun resting on fork on loading lever with slight downward pressure.

In the picture

My first three shots were high and grouped 1 1/4".
Adjusted aim about half way down front sight. Last two balls from first group hit low and to the right of bulls eye. Grouped 1/2". Using original sighting...1st shot of second group hit, again, high just a top first group making that area 1 11/16 grouping.
Using adjusted sighting, last four shots of second group hit the bulls eye area grouping approx 1".
The third grouping was using second and last adjusted sighting. First shot hit high and to the right of bulls eye. Second shot hit low to the left of bulls eye while the last three grouped inside the bulls eye.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Land dimension is meaningless, you need the groove diameter as well as chamber diameter. 

[Bryan Austin]

Land dimension is meaningless, you need the groove diameter as well as chamber diameter. 

ooops, .458 groove and .450 chamber

I also forgot to ask for a good source for reaming the chamber.

[Advertising]

[Hoof Hearted]

ooops, .458 groove and .450 chamber

I also forgot to ask for a good source for reaming the chamber.

What model and brand of pistol are you "slugging" it out with?

[Bryan Austin]

I slugged a 454 ball and it did not even bottom out on the groove.

Now I am getting mad...lol

[Bryan Austin]

What model and brand of pistol are you "slugging" it out with?

This one is the Uberti Remington 1858 dated, BP, 2001

The 45 conversion is fine since the bullet is larger than the groove, or at least slugs in the groove, but the 454 ball aint gonna work as far as a tight fit.

[Hoof Hearted]

This one is the Uberti Remington 1858 dated, BP, 2001

The 45 conversion is fine since the bullet is larger than the groove, or at least slugs in the groove, but the 454 ball aint gonna work as far as a tight fit.

I don't confuse easily, but yer gettin' close

If the chamber throats on the C&B cylinder are .450 than any ball you load will be .450.
And you say that the "45 conversion is fine since the bullet is larger than the groove" but you gave no specs for the chamber throats on it and I doubt it is .458.

[Bryan Austin]

You are correct. The C&B chamber is smaller then the barrel groove which means that when I stuff a ball into the cylinder chamber, it then becomes .450 and will bounce down the barrel.   right?

The 45 cylinder conversion is not the same C&B cylinder. It, of course, has bigger chambers for the catridges allowing for a bigger bullet.

It takes me a while to spit out what I am trying to say and sometimes it dribbles down my chin 

[John Taylor]

I had one in the shop about a year back that had a groove diameter of .456". The chamber of the original cylinder was .450" and the new conversion cylinder was .452". Customer wanted the original cylinder reamed to .452 to match the conversion and along the way I talked him into a new barrel with a .452 groove diameter. He sent back a target with a 1" group and said he was happy with it.
I have seen many cap and ball revolvers with over sized barrels and have reamed lots of cylinders to match the groove diameter. Can't see how the manufacture would expect these pistols to shoot strait when they make them that way.
T.J.'s ( 859-635-5560 ) sells hammer forged barrel blanks in 38-40, 44 and 45 that work great for making new barrels. You only buy the amount you need so your not paying for a full length rifle barrel.

[Hoof Hearted]

You are correct. The C&B chamber is smaller then the barrel groove which means that when I stuff a ball into the cylinder chamber, it then becomes .450 and will bounce down the barrel.   right?

The 45 cylinder conversion is not the same C&B cylinder. It, of course, has bigger chambers for the catridges allowing for a bigger bullet.

It takes me a while to spit out what I am trying to say and sometimes it dribbles down my chin 

With full loads (not SASS reduced loads) and soft bullet material you should have no problem (i.e; acceptable accuracy) as BP will cause the bullet to bump up (obturation).

[Bryan Austin]

Thanks for the info guys.

Ok, edited my main post to try and keep the confusion down and at least make it look like I know what I am doing.

I currently have two Uberti 1858 Remingtons with 8" barrels. I have both C&B and conversion cylinders.

Revolver One
Cylinder chamber mouth is .450

Slugging with a 45 cal 200 grain bullet.
Bullet base is .451
Slug groove - again, bullet did not fill the groove. However, bullet base expanded to .454 probably from the hammer tapping. Halfway up the bullet expanded to .452

Now, taking a .454 ball and tapping it on a hard surfaced cause it to mushroom a little. Now I used this to slug the barrel and it filled the groove. Groove measured two .456's and one .457

Revolver Two
Aint got there yet!

[Bryan Austin]

I had one in the shop about a year back that had a groove diameter of .456". The chamber of the original cylinder was .450" and the new conversion cylinder was .452". Customer wanted the original cylinder reamed to .452 to match the conversion and along the way I talked him into a new barrel with a .452 groove diameter. He sent back a target with a 1" group and said he was happy with it.
I have seen many cap and ball revolvers with over sized barrels and have reamed lots of cylinders to match the groove diameter. Can't see how the manufacture would expect these pistols to shoot strait when they make them that way.
T.J.'s ( 859-635-5560 ) sells hammer forged barrel blanks in 38-40, 44 and 45 that work great for making new barrels. You only buy the amount you need so your not paying for a full length rifle barrel.

John can you ream mine? I want to use DD's DD-ROA 210 grain or equivalent.

[Wolfgang]

Savvy Jack . . . . Good for you, . . . you've come a long way into "knowing what your are doing" . . .     and it NEVER, NEVER, ever will END     not ever . . . .

The chambers on the cyliders for my Piettas are tight and shoot very well with the .457 round balls.  Yes they are being swaged down as the enter the chambers.  But there is a lot of lead surface against the cylinder walls and therefore more pressure generated when fired.  The have to be obderating  ( sp ? ) into the grooves as they shoot well and do not lead the bore.  I was looking into a reamer for my '58 cylinders and for my Webley chamber throats as well . . . . until I discoverd over on a British Gun forum that the Webleys were intentionaly made with tight chamber throats as they were found to shoot stronger that way  ( ie greater chamber pressure generated as the bullet was squezed down thru the tight throat.  I'm still trying to find out what the specs were in the original Remingtons for groove diameter and chamber diameter.  What shoots the very best both in Webleys and in my Pietta '58 are the hollow based connicals.  No matter what I discover about original specs I probably will not ream the '58 chambers as the .457 balls shoot very well and if I ever go to casting for myself I will cast hollow based conicals.  

Just my  $.03  if of any chance some value . . .

[Fox Creek Kid]

http://www.alaskais.com/45Cylinderdoctor/

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-6727422/Making-blackpowder-revolvers-more-user.html

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=244774&highlight=reaming

[Bryan Austin]

Let me see if I have this correct.

If my barrel slugs .456 in the groove, the cylinder chamber needs to be reamed to .458 thus requiring a ball to size .460 or so?

As of right now it appears that my cylinder/barrel bore is backwards thus inaccurate?

[Bryan Austin]

I decided to take a look at my R&D 45 colt conversion cylinder. I am using 452 (but wil change to 454) big lube bullets. I noticed that the chamber on the R&D face is .451. Does this mean when fired the chamber face (dont know the correct description name) will resize the bullet from .452 (or 454) to 451? Now a .451 size bullet is running down a .456 groove barrel?


Think I am gonna take up the hobby of basket weaving and give up this confusing sport! 

[Wolfgang]

Just to futher confuse the issue . . . . 

Someone once mentioned to me that they were going to take a class to learn underwater basket weaving. . . .  . . . duh . . . how do you hold your breath long enough to finish weaving the basket ? . . . . 

Savvy Jack . . . in responce to your question (s) . . . yes, . . probably, . . maybe . . . OK . . . just use what ever answer feels good for the moment and continue having fun . . . . 

More seriously , . . . I've been grappeling with the same issue as you are.  Read carefully my post above. 

Good shootin', . . . . 

[Bryan Austin]

I think I have the biggest bore Remington out there. I slugged it again and this time got all .458 groove readings.

Think I will keep what I have  and maybe later sleeve the barrel or get the barrels replaced. Right now I will just enjoy hitting steel targets with them.   

[Fox Creek Kid]

Savvy Jack, the only real problem is when you have to ream larger than a commercially available sized ball. Then you have to get a special mould, e.g., 0.465 mould for 0.458 chambers. If you do not cast then it's detrimental.

[Wolfgang]

Jack . . . if'n ya mold hollow based connical bullets it won't matter the way your chambers and bore are.   Get one box of the hollow based connicals from Cabelas and give them a try.  My Piettas shoot GREAT with them.  I fired a 18 round rapid fire group at 15 yards that measured 4 inches with them.  ( was shooting rapid fire and swapping cylinders ).  I've never have got around to shooting a 6 round group from a bagged rest but I figure it'd make one ragged hole.   That is an inexpensive way to find out how it will shoot with hollow base bullets.  Just my $ .04  worth ... . . . . .