Guns in "Last Stand at Saber River"

[Silver Creek Slim]

I watched "Last Stand" last night. I was very impressed at the high usage of Spencer rifles in it. Since, there was a higher number of  Spencers produced than Henrys up to 1865, the timeframe of the movie. They also used muzzle loading rifles. Cable's (Selleck) pistol was a Colt that was converted to shoot cartridges. It even had a loading gate. Edward Janroe, the storekeeper, uses a LeMatt pistol.

Slim

[Delmonico]

Over all there were far more Spencers than Hernry's produced.  I know I could get hung for this, but I really doubt the Hernry was all that common in the west, it got good press though, thanks to Oliver Winchester.  I belive there were 15,000 in round figures made and most were bought by private puchase for Civil War duty.  Those who did bring them west would have had to carry lots of ammo cause I doubt that every hardware store carried it till the thens of thousands of 1866's started showin' up, the 66 of course used the same ammo as the Henry.

Slim can ya Google up total production figures for the Spencers.

[Silver Creek Slim]

I read a couple articles recently on the Spencer, that is why I even knew what one looked like. If I remember correctly, the Winchesters (Henry, '66, & '73) did not outnumber the Spencer until the 1880's. Part of the reason for this was because Spencer got the military  contract in the 1860's instead of New Haven Arms Co. (later renamed to Winchester). I will look around to see if I can find more info on it.

Slim

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[Four-Eyed Buck]

Slim, There was an article in GOTOW that featured the Colts he used in Cross fire and last stand. It was #40, done by Mike Beliveau( Bottom Dealin' Mike). The conversion from Last Stand and the Open Top from Crossfire. The conversion is one of Kenny Howell's as well as the OpenTop. It's on page thirty. Nice close ups of both of them. Believe you can astill get back issues if you so desire. The conversion is an 1860..............Buck

[Silver Creek Slim]

Buck,
I thought is was a 1860 by the way the grip fit his hand. So, it should be .44", right? Was the LeMatt a .36"? Why I ask is David Carridine's (sp?) character was shot with a LeMatt and they accused Cable of shooting him.

Slim

[Delmonico]

The original LeMatt was a 42 caliber.

[Silver Creek Slim]

The original LeMatt was a 42 caliber.

Ooooooooooooooooooooh! I found that the current production LeMat is .44".
I just found this article on CW rifles. http://www.floridareenactorsonline.com/carbinesetc.htm
It says, "When the war ended, 105,804 of the 200,000 Spencers in use were purchased by private individuals." and of the Henry, "The U.S. government bought 1,731 of the rifles and 4,610,400 cartridges, the last of which was received on November 7, 1865."

Slim

[Silver Creek Slim]

What cartridge would have been used in a Colt conversion in 1865?

Slim

[Four-Eyed Buck]

some were set up up for a rimfire and some were set up for centerfire. The original open tops were in .44 Henry. Believe the centerfiers were .44 Colt. Some of the converted .36's were in a .38 Rimfire..............Buck The 1860 was in .44Colt as  was the open top......Buck

[Silver Creek Slim]

some were set up up for a rimfire and some were set up for centerfire. The original open tops were in .44 Henry. Believe the centerfiers were .44 Colt. Some of the converted .36's were in a .38 Rimfire..............Buck The 1860 was in .44Colt as  was the open top......Buck

Thanks, Buck.

Slim

[Four-Eyed Buck]

you're quite welcome sometimes my limited knowledge and keeping of back issues of magazine's comes in handy. Just a font of trivial knowledge ..............Buck

[Silver Creek Slim]

Over all there were far more Spencers than Hernry's produced.  I know I could get hung for this, but I really doubt the Hernry was all that common in the west, it got good press though, thanks to Oliver Winchester.  I belive there were 15,000 in round figures made and most were bought by private puchase for Civil War duty.  Those who did bring them west would have had to carry lots of ammo cause I doubt that every hardware store carried it till the thens of thousands of 1866's started showin' up, the 66 of course used the same ammo as the Henry.

Slim can ya Google up total production figures for the Spencers.

I am finding conflicting reports on the total production figures from 144,500 to 200,000.

Here is a bit of info that might be interesting.
" After the war, the company could not compete with its own surplus, at the time being sold off by the government. They introduced improved models, but the improvements were subtle. Small civilian, state and foreign orders would not sustain the company, neither would refinishing and spare parts work. Finally, in 1869, the armory closed and was bought by the Fogerty Rifle Company, who in turn were purchased by Winchester, in a move to lessen competition. 16

16.)Spencer Repeating Firearms, Roy Marcot, Norrthwood Heritage Press 1983, Pg. 155"
http://www.civilwarguns.com/spencer1.html

Slim

[Silver Creek Slim]

I read a couple articles recently on the Spencer, that is why I even knew what one looked like. If I remember correctly, the Winchesters (Henry, '66, & '73) did not outnumber the Spencer until the 1880's. Part of the reason for this was because Spencer got the military  contract in the 1860's instead of New Haven Arms Co. (later renamed to Winchester). I will look around to see if I can find more info on it.

Slim

The articles are in the Cowboy Chronicle written by Tuolumne Lawman SASS #6127. The issues are Sept and Oct 2004. He also has an article on the Henry in the Nov 2004 issue.

Slim

[Delmonico]

That means though that there were at least almost 10 times more Spencers than Henry's, just like I thought.

[Silver Creek Slim]

That means though that there were at least almost 10 times more Spencers than Henry's, just like I thought.

Slim

[Will Ketchum]

Slim, Kenny Howell made 3 revolvers for "Last Stand"  He kept one Selleck has at least one and I guess the studio must have the other.  Anyway I got to shoot the one Kenny kept .

Will Ketchum

[Wymore Wrangler]

I look at it this way, yes you could shoot 15 times with the Henry, but the 44 rimfire was at best a mild load.  Take the 56-50 Spencer that had a heck of alot more hitting power and it wouldn't take long to figure out which one you would want to carry....

[Delmonico]

Real men only need 1 shot and use Sharps's or Rollers.

[Russ T Chambers]

Real men only need 1 shot and use Sharps's or Rollers.

Works fine on Buff, buff (they normal don't fight back)  , but if'n a bunch of Apache are a comin' down on ya, I'd rather have 1 shot- 1 enemy, and be able to repeat it very fast!

[Delmonico]

As long as I got's rounds in the belt, I can do 8-10 "aimed rounds a minute with the Sharps and don't have as much down time as I would when the Spencer or Henry run dry.  Side's  that if'n I see that Apache at a half mile he's in seeevere danger.

Couse in the 1870's (don't remeber the exact date)  the Turks had the idea in one of their forts, the armed each fella with a Martini-Henry and a Winny 73 musket,.  Raised heck with the Rooskies till the got close and then they mowed em down in windrows.