Update: Cowboy Carriers for '66 and 73 rifles

[Dusty Morningwood]

As to the mailman, well, he took that job for the security and the benefits, he has to work extra hard for it sometimes.

I'll be sure and point that out next time he comes huffing and puffing up my steps!   

[Adirondack Jack]

Just back from the Post Office.  Gonna be a couple of more smiling cowboys in AZ and TX in a few days.
Now that the fun is over FOR NOW, I'm waiting on the next batch.....

[Dusty Tagalon]

Will the same carrier work in the 1860?

Dusty

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[Adirondack Jack]

Will the same carrier work in the 1860?

Dusty

The 1860 carrier is a little different.  The carrier from a 66 or 73 would work in a '60, but the bottom profile is different.  The Henry has a flat bottomed carrier.  So it would end up an external mod.

We do plan to make some '60 carriers with the cartridge stop fairly soon.

[stepnmud]

Installed A.J.'s & Happy Trails carrier last nite in my 44WCF Henry and ran a few test dummy rounds OAL 1.20" and the carrier functioned perfectly, will try to fire some live 44 Russians down range this coming weekend.

[Adirondack Jack]

Good to hear yer installation went without a hitch.  One always wonders how the instructions will translate when read by folks not involved in designing the thing

Waiting on the live fire report

[knucklehead]

I am very happy that this finally has become a reality.
I have one question about this carrier before i decide to put my name on the list for one.

I have the super short stroke kit made by Pioneer Gun Works, Inc. installed in my '66 and want to know if anyone has tested this carrier with a short stroke kit installed?

thanks again Adirondack Jack for making this carrier a reality.

[Adirondack Jack]

Yer short stroke kit won't know the difference.  The carrier is identical to a stock carrier, except for the mechanism we install inside the area that handles cartridges.  The parts that contact the lifter lever and so forth are just like they come from Uberti.

[Dusty Morningwood]

Mine has arrived, but have not had a chance to install it yet.  Maybe this weekend.  And why would the different profile on the 60 and 66 carriers be considered such an egregeous external modification?  I could easily see this as a typical frontier repair using available parts.

[Adirondack Jack]

Mine has arrived, but have not had a chance to install it yet.  Maybe this weekend.  And why would the different profile on the 60 and 66 carriers be considered such an egregeous external modification?  I could easily see this as a typical frontier repair using available parts.

I on't know that anybody would care about a 60 with a 66 carrier.  BUT, if ya read SASS rules, if ya can SEE IT with the action closed up and at rest, it's external.  So we plan on making some with the "right" profile for the 60's, so they won't run afoul of someody TRYING to make life miserable.

It ain't like the bottom surface of the carrier has any effect whatsoever on the operation of the gun, life say a hammer spur's profile, etc.

[Long Gulch]

Receieved the new carrier on Monday but no time to try it out right away
Installed the carrier on Tuesday in my '66 short stroked (Ottway Smith links) 44 Special with 20 inch barrel.
carrier fits in the rifle real nice . On Wednesday went to the range with 44 Russians loaded with 3.2 clays, 165 grain rnfp, with an OAL of 1.185. I function tested this at home because the 1.220 length just did not do well. Range test went very well. . This baby feeds slow or fast, uhhh well my kinda fast. . Me and the ranch boss is leavin for the Kaintukee State shoot in a coulple hours and that should give the carrier a proper test .

Thanks AJ and Happy Trails at The Smith Shop. I  have waited for this perfected  product for something like a year and a half. Glad someone came up with it cause I gots to many dead brain cells to do it meowndangself.

Thanks fellers, Y'all have done extray fine

Oh BTW just so I can qualify fer this site, Them russians do get a regular diet of BP as well

LG

[Adirondack Jack]

Receieved the new carrier on Monday but no time to try it out right away
Installed the carrier on Tuesday in my '66 short stroked (Ottway Smith links) 44 Special with 20 inch barrel.
carrier fits in the rifle real nice . On Wednesday went to the range with 44 Russians loaded with 3.2 clays, 165 grain rnfp, with an OAL of 1.185. I function tested this at home because the 1.220 length just did not do well. Range test went very well. . This baby feeds slow or fast, uhhh well my kinda fast. . Me and the ranch boss is leavin for the Kaintukee State shoot in a coulple hours and that should give the carrier a proper test .

Thanks AJ and Happy Trails at The Smith Shop. I  have waited for this perfected  product for something like a year and a half. Glad someone came up with it cause I gots to many dead brain cells to do it meowndangself.

Thanks fellers, Y'all have done extray fine

Oh BTW just so I can qualify fer this site, Them russians do get a regular diet of BP as well

LG

Howdy Long Gulch,

Discussing the OAL issue with the .44 Russian rounds, Hap and I agree you can carefully pop the cartridge stop out the side of the carrier (yeah, ya gotta take the carrier out of the gun first), and shave a little bit off the nose of the cartridge stop where it contacts the base of the round, so that the stop will allow a little more OAL.  Not sure why yours wouldn't digest 1.220 rounds, must be ya got a bit of a tight dimensioned slot in the frame, front to back.  In any event, ya can shave that stop back a little if the 1.185 OAL is not handy for yer bullets.

Good luck in KY.

[Marshal Tac]

Jack, I got my carrier in the mail the other day but have not had the time to sit down with the rifle and get it installed. The instructions look easy enought. If you can pull the bolt, you can install this carrier.

Once I get it up an running, I will let you know how she shoots. (by the way, this carrier is going into a saddle ring carbine '73 that is nickle plated, so that brass carrier should give a nice contrast.  I intend on calling it my "Cowboy Special Pimp-gun Carbine"    )

[stepnmud]

Live fired 44 Russians today in my newly rechambered Henry 44WCF to 44 Special and A.J.'s new short carrier. Using my home cast .430"  165 grain big lube boolits OAL 1.200". Had a couple extra things to watch for at public range besides the short carrier for this first firing session. First, I wanted to see if the chamber insert was going to stay put. ::)Second, checking fired cases for any irregular distortion and using 1.3 cc FF Wano blackpowder. After first ten rounds were fired and everthing looked good, Then fired ten rounds loaded in the magazine and shot on paper at 25 yrds. in the picture.



The short carrier worked perfect, but had some extraction problems that seemed to me to be to much blowback from blackpowder not sealing up the chamber like the wonderful 44WCF rounds. The fired rounds were sticky when trying to lever out the empties and spent cases looked like the front half had blackpowder residue. I'm going to load some 200 gr. bullets to see if that'll help with blowback and maybe polish out the chamber insert abit more. Course I could load up some dang smokeless rounds to see if that's a fix also, but would defeat the original purpose of using 44 Russian's. Just love tinkering with stuff and sometimes it works out OK.

[Adirondack Jack]

Live fired 44 Russians today in my newly rechambered Henry 44WCF to 44 Special and A.J.'s new short carrier. Using my home cast .430"  165 grain big lube boolits OAL 1.200". Had a couple extra things to watch for at public range besides the short carrier for this first firing session. First, I wanted to see if the chamber insert was going to stay put. ::)Second, checking fired cases for any irregular distortion and using 1.3 cc FF Wano blackpowder. After first ten rounds were fired and everthing looked good, Then fired ten rounds loaded in the magazine and shot on paper at 25 yrds. in the picture.



The short carrier worked perfect, but had some extraction problems that seemed to me to be to much blowback from blackpowder not sealing up the chamber like the wonderful 44WCF rounds. The fired rounds were sticky when trying to lever out the empties and spent cases looked like the front half had blackpowder residue. I'm going to load some 200 gr. bullets to see if that'll help with blowback and maybe polish out the chamber insert abit more. Course I could load up some dang smokeless rounds to see if that's a fix also, but would defeat the original purpose of using 44 Russian's. Just love tinkering with stuff and sometimes it works out OK.

Sounds good, Stepnmud,

Are yer cases "official" .44 Russians, or cut back .44 Specials?  Either way, annealing the case mouths by dipping em into yer lead pot for a quick "on, two" count then dropping em right into icewater might help.  Might could be ya got roughness inside yer insert as well, or (heaven forbid) it's not perfectly cylidrical and is instead hourglassed???

In any event, glad the carrier is working for ya.  Your groups ain't at all bad for yer cobbled together chamber insert,

[stepnmud]

A.J., I'll try annealing some Russian cases,I didn't think about that. These are factory Starline 44 Russian cases from "Buffalo Arms" that I've been using in a pair of revolvers for the past year and have had quite a few reloads on them.
I know this insert is a bit rough and will smooth it out some. Always the next time, but would/could have bought a 44 Special rifle barrel reliner and just cut off the chamber part for a rechamber job and discard the barrel part.Anyhow it's still a work in progress.

[Adirondack Jack]

Just got the final report from our intrepid torture tester on the Cowboy Carrier.

"One more report on the carrier in 44 Russian.
 
I just finished shooting a 10 round, 2 day match in Boulder City, NV (The Best Shoot By A Dam Site) and used the M'73 in 44 Russian as my main match rifle.
 
100 rounds of BP loads, 50 each day.  As a test for both of us, I didn't clean the rifle after the first day and let it sit overnight.  Started out the second day just as it was put away after the first day's shooting.
 
No problems what so ever; it digested all 100 rounds and never missed a beat.
 
I don't think that further reports are needed as it looks to me like it has proven itself.
 
Like I mentioned before, the only mod that I made to it was to file a little off the cartridge stop, per your suggestion,  to accomodate the length of my rounds.
 
Thanks again for a great product and for giving me the opportunity to be one of the testers."

All I can say is "WOW".  I knew it would work before the first one was ever made, but run two days without any ablutions with BP?  WOW.
 

[Marshal Tac]

AJ...
I just got done installing my "cowboy carrier" and have to comment that it is straight forward and as easy as the included instructions depict. It took me about 25-30 minutes and a good part of that was spent searching for my tools (dial caliper and mill file).

After installation, I gave it a "dry run", finding that it worked just like advertised.  I then lubed up the gun and ran 13 rounds through it as fast as I could cycle the action. Not one bump, hiccup, studder or stoppage! Well done Sir!

I will likely give it a much more in-depth live fire test in the next week or so. I will report back then. I will include in that test some accuracy testing as well as reliability.

My "pet" .45 Cowboy load is the 200 grain cast bullet with standard lube and loaded with a flat (non compressed) charge of 777 2F. It has worked wonderfully in all my revolvers (except the Schofields, but thats the gun, not the cartridge), and I fully expect a good show with it in the short little '73 saddle ring carbine.

Thanks again.
-Tac

[Adirondack Jack]

AJ...
I just got done installing my "cowboy carrier" and have to comment that it is straight forward and as easy as the included instructions depict. It took me about 25-30 minutes and a good part of that was spent searching for my tools (dial caliper and mill file).

After installation, I gave it a "dry run", finding that it worked just like advertised.  I then lubed up the gun and ran 13 rounds through it as fast as I could cycle the action. Not one bump, hiccup, studder or stoppage! Well done Sir!

I will likely give it a much more in-depth live fire test in the next week or so. I will report back then. I will include in that test some accuracy testing as well as reliability.

My "pet" .45 Cowboy load is the 200 grain cast bullet with standard lube and loaded with a flat (non compressed) charge of 777 2F. It has worked wonderfully in all my revolvers (except the Schofields, but thats the gun, not the cartridge), and I fully expect a good show with it in the shortl little '73 saddle ring carbine.

Thanks again.
-Tac

yer welcome.

Did ya make a "pusher" for the last round yet?  I sacrifced an 8MM Mauser case  (any 30 cal bottleneck rifle round would work well).  Cross drilled it near the base for a lanyard, and seated and crimped a jacketed bullet upside down as a pusher.  It's attached to the leather thong on my loading block, so after loading the rifle, it's always handy

[Marshal Tac]

On occasion I have been known to shoot a little "Frontiersman". I happen to keep a .30-30 cartridge case with the a shortened pencil inserted in the casing and crimped down so that the eraser end protrudes about an inch from the end of the brass, in one of the empty cartridge loops on my belt, in order to assist with seating my #10 Reminton caps... I am thinking that it will complete the job of pushing the cartridges in past the stop without complaint.

I like the idea of a small deer antler tine though, and am considering that as an alternative... as long as the deer cooperate during the up coming season, it should not be an issue.... The Elk antler I have left over from last year is a might too thick to work.....