N.W.M.P Rifle Scabbard.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Hi has anyone got a picture of the saddle brow scabbard as used by the Mounties for there 76's.
I've seen the oval ones with two holes as used by early westerners but not one issued to troopers.
Can anyone help.

[Buffalo Creek Law Dog]

I'm still fiddling with photo bucket (slow learner I guess) so I emailed you two photos.  I assume when you say "saddle brow" you are refering to "pommel" (western term).

Note the strap that goes through the trigger guard on the pommel scabard.

On the saddle scabbard you can also see the lance bucket on the stirrup.

take care and let me know if they came through.

Cheers!

BCLD

[Hobie]

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[Judge Roy Bean]

Thanks guy's that's just what I'm looking for.B C L D my e-mule address is wrong in my info page but I don't seem to be able to change it.Here it is judgeroybean_4@msn.com please re send them again. Hobie thanks for the photo you posted; has anyone got this pattern laid out with the sizes.

[Buffalo Creek Law Dog]

email won't work however, the first photo I was going to send was the same that one Hobie sent you.  My second photo was the current Universal saddle scabbard which is situated behind the right leg on the rider pointing downward.  It is from the same book as Hobie's.

Cheers!

[Buck Stinson]

I reproduce the scabbard or bucket that Buffalo Creek is talking about.  At least I believe it's the same one.  I'm not sure I would consider it a "universal" scabbard because this one was made only for the 1876 Winchester carbine and nothing else.  An original is pictured at the top left on page 150, of  Phillips and Klanchers book "Arms and Accoutrements of the Mounted Police".   It is shown attached to a military style saddle.  These were however, designed to fit most of the large California saddles that were popular with the Mounted Police.   In 1999, I called Carmen Harry at the Mountie museum in Regina and she was kind enough to give me the specs on this scabbard.  My plan was and still is to eventually add it to the catalog and web site.   They are quite popular with NWMP collectors.  The reprodcution that they have in the museum is made wrong and can only be used on the left side of the saddle.  The originals were made only for the right side.  It is a difficult scabbard to make but very cool, because it's like a Slim Jim holster for a '76 carbine, complete with muzzle plug.  They sure dress up a Mountie carbine.

Adios,
Buck

[Hobie]

I've been thinking I'd like one just because I have the carbine (but I haven't and won't have a horse!).   

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Buck;  "Universal" refers to the saddle, not the boot.  I think you are right, it was made for the carbine.  I'm not sure if they used the same scabbard with the later Lee-Metford or Lee-Enfield cavalry carbines?

[Icebox Bob]

If anyone wants to know more about the British and Canadian UP (Universal pattern) saddle go here - http://www.militaryhorse.org/upsaddle/  or here - http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeeir49/id6.html
I use one of these - http://tarpinhill.net/saddle.htm  a modern version of the UP saddle.

Icebox

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

When I was thinking about a "soldiers of the Queen" board, I found the Aussie Light Horse website.  Mention was made of reproduction saddles made in India, but that they had to be reworked to make them usable.

BTW the "Light Horse" concept still lives in Canadian tradition. Several armoured units still call themselves "light horse" and wear two gold stripes on their patrol dress overalls.  Light Horsemen were simply a reincarnation of the dragoon concept.

[Grizzly Adams]

Pretty neat design.  Almost makes me wish I had a horse!

[RattlesnakeJack]

BTW the "Light Horse" concept still lives in Canadian tradition. Several armoured units still call themselves "light horse" and wear two gold stripes on their patrol dress overalls.  Light Horsemen were simply a reincarnation of the dragoon concept.

In fact, Medicine Hat's Regiment (which is assigned an Armoured Reconnaissance role) is The South Alberta Light Horse (SALH, or "Sally Horse") ..... 

Interestingly enough, the earliest unit the SALH officially perpetuate is the original Rocky Mountain Rangers - a mounted provisional militia unit raised for the North West Rebellion ....  not to be confused with the present-day Infantry unit headquartered in Kamloops, B.C.  (Although raised at Fort Macleod - about 150 miles west of here, in the foothills of the Rockies .... hence the name - two the the three RMR Troops were stationed at Medicine Hat.)

The proposal made by Capt. (later Maj.) John O. Stewart, a former Cavalry officer who raised and commanded the unit, and accepted by the Minister of Militia, included the following among its terms:

(3) The arms to consist of 1 revolver Mounted Police pattern or any other serviceable Revolver in their possession. One Winchester carbine or other serviceable Carbine or Rifle in their possession. 1 Cartridge belt with knife attached (M.P. pattern)(A limited deficiency in Arms to be supplied by Government, but the conditions of enlistment to require them furnished by the men.)

Any rifles supplied to Rangers by the government were of the "NWMP Pattern".  A number of the officers and men of the Rocky Mountain Rangers had served in the NWMP, and period photographs show many of them using the "pommel carry" method of the Mounted Police .....







In this detail from the last picture above, the kneeling man clearly has his own rifle, but the two on the saddle  pommels in the background certainly appear to be the Mounted Police pattern ....

[Roscoe Coles]

While this one may have been made especially for the Mounties, it is simply a variation of a "California Loop."  I have had one on my saddle for years and it can be adjusted to fit all kinds of rifles or even shotguns.  It has several advantages over a traditional rifle scabbard: the gun does not hamper the horse in a turn or fall out (like a horizontal scabbard), if the horse rolls its less likely break the stock off than a vertical scabbard and the gun is directly at hand.  the down side is that it gets in the way when roping and its tough to make your way through narrow gaps or ride in formation as the barrel bumps into things, possibly even damaging the front sight.  Still, its my favorite way to carry a gun on horseback.