S&W replicas and BP - can it be done?

[Zip Wyatt]

Trading for this original 1887 Winny has started me to thinking that I should shoot BP.  Of course I need another set of guns to do this.  I love S&W model 3s - I've got several of the originals. 

Then I start reading here and elsewhere that some of the S&W replicas bind up with BP and that the Laramie - my favorite looking of the bunch - has adjustable sights and has to be shot in modern category? 

So, is anyone shooting BP successfully out of the S&W model 3 replicas and does anyone shoot BP in the modern category with a Laramie (or two)?  What's the overall consensus about these replicas and the use of real BP?  What about BP in the 38 special caliber?  I don't mind cleaning my guns but I don't want to have to do it every 20 rounds.

Maybe I can just shoot my two less than collectable originals?  It's BP, right?  It shouldn't hurt them, or will it?  Ok, I know 1880s steel ain't that strong.  Why can't these darn replica makers just make a New Model 3 with fixed sights?

Thank you for your time.

Zip

[Pettifogger]

On the front of the cylinders on your originals you will see a bushing/gas ring.  This protects the base pin from powder fouling.  On the reproductions, including the S&W version, they have eliminated that bushing.  As a result, the barrel/cylinder gap is directly in line with the base pin and fouling blows directly on the base pin every time you fire the gun.  I had very poor luck with real BP.  It is a little better with APP or 777, but still fouls fairly quickly.  I'm not the type that's going to swab my rifle bore or shotgun bores or clean my handguns between every stage.  If a gun/ammo combo won't reliably go at least six stages without attention, I correct the gun, the ammo, or both, or I find a different combination.  I have an original and shooting BP or APP certainly won't hurt them.  777 probably won't either, but it has noticeably more grunt than real BP or APP so I haven't used it in my originals.

[Will Ketchum]

Trading for this original 1887 Winny has started me to thinking that I should shoot BP.  Of course I need another set of guns to do this.  I love S&W model 3s - I've got several of the originals. 

Then I start reading here and elsewhere that some of the S&W replicas bind up with BP and that the Laramie - my favorite looking of the bunch - has adjustable sights and has to be shot in modern category? 

So, is anyone shooting BP successfully out of the S&W model 3 replicas and does anyone shoot BP in the modern category with a Laramie (or two)?  What's the overall consensus about these replicas and the use of real BP?  What about BP in the 38 special caliber?  I don't mind cleaning my guns but I don't want to have to do it every 20 rounds.

Maybe I can just shoot my two less than collectable originals?  It's BP, right?  It shouldn't hurt them, or will it?  Ok, I know 1880s steel ain't that strong.  Why can't these darn replica makers just make a New Model 3 with fixed sights?

Thank you for your time.

Zip

Zip, why don't you shoot your originals with BP?   I do.  They were made to shoot so shoot them.  As for the need to shoot the Laramies in modern, well in NCOWS you can shoot them in what ever class you want, except modern since we don't have a "modern class".  I have never understood why SASS requires a shooter to shoot a original gun such as a Colt flat top or a New Model Number 3, target model, with adjustable sights in a so called modern class but you can shoot truly modern guns such as the Vaquero in the other classes.

Will Ketchum

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[Zip Wyatt]

Pettifogger,
I see where that might be a problem.  Hasn't some sharp gunsmith come up with some sort of fix for this?

Will,
You are right the SASS rules on this don't make much sense but it ain't the first time.  As far as shooting the originals, I'd love to but I though they was "frageelay" and all?  That would be the best solution for me since I love the New Model 3s.  Are yours 44 russian and if so, what rifle do you shoot with them? 

I appreciate the responses.

Zip

[Will Ketchum]

Zip, mine are 44 Russian.   I have a 66 that is 44 spl that I had altered to shoot the Russians.  Mostly though I use my Henry in 44-40 and just use the 2 different calibers.

I don't think the original Smiths are all that fragile.  I have shot mine in many matches without anything breaking.  If they do break they can be repaired .  Mine are "shooters" and have been refinished.  I wouldn't consider them collector grade, although they look pretty nice.  (Some place in the archives of this forum there should be pictures of them)

Will Ketchum

[Fox Creek Kid]

You can't. The gas "collar", as S&W called it, was integral with the design of the gun. S&W lengthened their gas collar three times as fouling was problematic then as now.

[Flint]

I have a Second Model original S&W Russian and a Model 3 S&W in 44 Russian.  Neither one is happy with black powder.  Other than the ammo length difference in the Schofield, it could have contributed to the Army dropping the S&W revolver.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Other than the ammo length difference in the Schofield, it could have contributed to the Army dropping the S&W revolver.

Actually, the military wanted to buy MORE Schofields but S&W declined. Go figure. 

[Zip Wyatt]

Anybody shooting their real 45 S&W Schofield (and by real I mean the 130 year old guns)?

Zip

[Books OToole]

G.W. [Shofield] does.  He shoots with the Great Lakes Freight and Mining Posse of NCOWS.


Books

[Joe LeFors]

I have a Second Model that was shortened to just over 4" at some point (no Wells Fargo markings).  I haven't used it in a match, but I often take it out to the range and run a box of Black Dawge through it.  Even toted it along as a second gun at work one night, just for old times sake . . JLeF