The Classic Old Western Society in Finland

[Four-Eyed Buck]

I do believe the Finns have the reindeer market cornered..............Buck

[The Arapaho Kid]

I do believe the Finns have the reindeer market cornered..............Buck

Actually...I think it's the Laplanders who have that???

[Forty Rod]

Mad Dog, all you boys and girls in Finland load up and ride shotgun for Santa, if you don't mind. 

We need the old boy to get through to folks all over the world in a couple of weeks.

Much obliged, pard.  I know my grandson will appreciate it, too.

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[Marshal Halloway]

It has always been my understanding the Norway, Sweden, Finland, Lapland, Iceland, Greenland and Denmark were all Scandinavian???

Well, it is really not that simple.

In Nordic languages, the meaning is quite clear, but still a bit confusing:

   Skandinavien:
   Sweden, Denmark, Norway (and sometimes Iceland)
   -- the ancient lands of the Norsemen.

The Scandinavian peninsula, on the other hand, is comprised of Norway and Sweden, despite the unclear border to the Kola peninsula. The northernmost part of Finland is also situated on the Scandinavian peninsula.

But in English there is no standard usage due to the fact that English lacks a simple and clear term for the five countries, and the word "Scandinavia" tends to be used for that purpose instead. The term "Nordic countries", in its current definition, is a rather recent invention, its meaning is still a bit obscure especially to non-Europeans, it's awkward to use and to some people it carries unpleasant connotations of the Aryan "Nordic race". Therefore, you will find that it's quite common to define the word "Scandinavia" in English like this:

   [Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English]
   SCANDINAVIAN
   1. of the countries Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Iceland
      in northern Europe, or their people or languages.

On the other hand, it is not uncommon to use the word "Scandinavia" in its more limited definition. An example:

   [The Concise Oxford Dictionary]
   SCANDINAVIAN
   1. a native or inhabitant of Scandinavia
      (Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Iceland).

And some encyclopaedias put it like this:

   [The Random House Encyclopaedia]
   SCANDINAVIA
   1. region of northern Europe consisting of
      the kingdoms of Sweden, Norway and Denmark;
      culturally and historically Finland and Iceland
      are often considered part of this area.

Despite the term being rather clear for the Scandinavians themselves, disputes remain about how the term would be understood and derived in English. If the word is understood as a geographic term, how can then Denmark be included - as most do. If instead it's deduced from the area where the languages are quite similar North-Germanians, should Iceland logically be excluded?

When Scandinavian Western Shooters was founded back in 1997, the founding fathers decided on this name in the hope that all countries (Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark) would join forces in organizing our sport. As of today, only Norway and Sweden has a cooperation between two governing bodies which are SWS in Norway and SWSf in Sweden.

[Mad Dog Reno]

Mad Dog, all you boys and girls in Finland load up and ride shotgun for Santa, if you don't mind. 

We need the old boy to get through to folks all over the world in a couple of weeks.

Much obliged, pard.  I know my grandson will appreciate it, too.

Okey!  The situation is under control, so Santa can arrive in time!
So tell greetings to your grandson.

[Bad Flynch]

>If the word is understood as a geographic term, how can then Denmark be included - as most do. If instead it's deduced from the area where the languages are quite similar North-Germanians, should Iceland logically be excluded?<

The Germanic tribes of Denmark are kin to the southern Swedes, I believe (see Beowulf), and spoke the same language, or at least a mutually intelligible tongue, and were considered Norse, even by the Anglo-Saxons. The Icelanders are Norse, too, as in Leif Erickson and his father Eric the Red. Icelandic is considered the language closest to Old Norse. In the Sagas of the Icelanders, it is plain that they considered themselves a common people with the mainland bunch and occasionally even would consider even the Anglo-Saxons as kin.

Historically, the old Finns didn't care much for the Swedes. My wifes grandmother, whom she called Aitti (sp?), came to this country in the early 1900s. Aitti would never accept me because I looked like a Swede, according to her. I am glad that we have a Finnlander here on this board, as it adds perspective.

[Joyce (AnnieLee)]

This is a great discussion, thank you!

From the perspective of Mythology, should the entire region be considered Nordic? I had always lumped them all together, with Freya and Odin being Norse gods. I don't want to make an erroneous assumption.

Thanks,

AnnieLee

[The Arapaho Kid]

From my teachings on Norse Mythology, Odin was the "ramrod" of all the Norse Gods.  The Boss!  Freya and I think that pronounced "Free-ga" had something to do whth the ocean creatures....fish and that.  I also understand she was the Goddess of the fisherfolk.  So to honor her fish was eaten on Friday....which was known as "Freya's Day....which then became Friday.  So...."fish on Friday" was not of Catholic origin.  Another Norse origin of a day was the day they honored Thor...God of thunder.  This was then known as "Thor's Day" which then became Thursday.

[Joyce (AnnieLee)]

That's true, Kid, but my question was about the Norse region. Does Finland share the same mythology? Perhaps the Ice Giants came from Finland?

Also, there are several variations to Freya, Frey, and Frigga, depending on the source material.

AnnieLee

[The Arapaho Kid]

That's true, Kid, but my question was about the Norse region. Does Finland share the same mythology? Perhaps the Ice Giants came from Finland?

Also, there are several variations to Freya, Frey, and Frigga, depending on the source material.

AnnieLee

I'm fairly well up on Norse Mythology...but that question could be better answered by Marshal Halloway, or someone from Finland.  I think they share the mythology, but their stories are just a little different?

[Marshal Halloway]

That's true, Kid, but my question was about the Norse region. Does Finland share the same mythology? Perhaps the Ice Giants came from Finland?
Also, there are several variations to Freya, Frey, and Frigga, depending on the source material.
AnnieLee

This article should answer some of the questions:
http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~cherryne/mythology.html

[Forty Rod]

Mad Dog, we're much obliged for your riding shotgun for the old gent.

Have a merry Christmas.

[Four-Eyed Buck]

There's some Norweigian in my background as well...... Mortenson's........Buck :)Hopefully my spelling's correct, might be an e at the end instead of an o.........Buck