44-40 reload help

[Judge Roy Bean]

Hello the camp I need a bit of your expert advice. I am going to an informal shoot at the famous shooting range at Bisley in late september,were myself and some buddy's to a long range Sharps practise .
We were asked to bring along our 44-40 leaver action's as we are not owner's of any 45-70 or above calibers.
We have the chance to shoot at target's out to 200 yard's,but most of us only  have carbines,there are a few rifles amongst us.
Sorry for being so long winded but what do you suggest i.e bullet wight,full 39-40 grns of holly black or the heathen smokey less
to git it out to at least 100 yards with a bit of accuracy's, not having shot any further than 50yards with a carbine befor.
So Iam hoping you guys can help.

[Grapeshot]

Full case of 3Fg, compress powder deep enough to seat big lube 200 grain bullet.  Even with a carbine, a hundred yards is an easy shot with BP and the 44-40 WCF.

of course a slightly compressed charge of 777 and a HARD cast smokeless bullet of the same weight should do as well.

[44caliberkid]

Add to that a Federal Large Magnum Pistol Primer.  It doesn't make much differance at CAS ranges, but can provide a bit more accuracy at long ranges.

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[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Judge,

Treat this mission same as a long range BPCR shooter would.   Sort yer brass and weigh it.  Accept only a very narrow weight range.  Use the others for less critical assignments.

Get yer hands on a compression die.  For normal SASS main match shootn' you don't need it, but for long range stuff it's a big help.

Size the brass the least necessary for ease of chambering, chamfer the mouth and only use a slight flair.

Seat the bullets, hopefully Big Lube™ Mav Dutchman 44-40 200 grain, to the crimp grove and don't over crimp.  This ammo will not get hard handling.

This would be a good place to spend the extra money on a premium black powder.  Swiss comes to mind.  You should test both FFFg and FFg for best accuracy.

Take yer time, load 'em rite, hold true.  You will like that gun out to 200 yards.

Good luck,

DD-DLoS

[Judge Roy Bean]

Thanks to you all for your help.It's just some of these big bore shooter's think if you cant shoot the left rear teat off a boar peckerie at 10000 yards then you cant hit any thing.ha .ha,,So because we shoot mainly carbines we aren't riflemen?

[Dick Dastardly]

One of my most accurate rifles has an 18 inch barrel.  Remington made it and embarrassed themselves so much they quit makin' it.  It's a 788 in 7mm-08 caliber.  That gun will shoot sub moa groups out to 500 yards and beyond.  A long barrel doesn't automatically equal great accuracy.  It does, however, give a longer sight radius for iron sights and a steady offhand aim because of the inertia of the long barrel.

Carbines can be deadly accurate.  A while back some of the world's best snipers used short barreled rifles they called Karabiners (Karabiner K98 Kurzr in 8mm Mauser). . .

DD-DLoS

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

My standard 44-40 load is 2.2CC of FFg under the 200 grain Mav-Dutchman bullet. It does pretty good, better than I can see anyway. 2.2CC will vary according to brand. With Goex it is about 34.5 grains. With Elephant, which is no longer available it was about 37.5 grains. With Schuetzen it is about 33 grains. That amount of powder will be compressed about 1/16" when loaded in a 44-40 case.

If you want a Smokeless load, my old '92 used to do pretty well with 7.5 grains of Unique under a hardcast 200 grain .427 bullet.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Thank you for your wealth of knowledge gentlemen. Not having the chance to try out my 66 carbine or my 44. Russian Spencer over
anything further than 50 yards ,I do not know as to how far they will be accurate too.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I went to www.hornady.com,  and went into their ballistic calculator program.  I had to estimate the ballistic coeficient at .13, by extrapolating from some Sierra figures!!!!!

I tried their handgun program;  200 gr bullet @ 1200fps.  The trajectory would be ROUGHLY as follows;

site height  0.8"  Zero @ 100x    (x = yards)  Remember metres are 10% longer.

Mzl     25x     50 x     75x     100x     150x     200x
-0.8   2.1     3.4       2.7       0.0       -12.3    -34.8

There it is!  Maybe someone can do better?

[w44wcf]

Judge,
As you will soon find out, shooting leverguns at longer distances sure is fuunnn!

Back in the 1890's, Winchester claimed that their .44 W.C.F. (.44-40) was effective at 300 yards for deer, bear, etc.

I shoot my '73 .44-40 out to 300 meters (327 yards) at the steel javelina target (9" high x 22" long). If I do my part, and there is little wind, most of those .44-40 bullets find their mark. WHat fun!   

I have found that the bullet that gives  the best accuracy at that distance is the Lyman 427098 bullet. It is a copy of the original .44-40 bullet and is intended to be loaded over a capacity load of b.p. or b.p. substitute.  I use Swiss FFG and sometimes, Pyrodex.

For an excellent shooting smokeless load with that bullet, a capacity load of Reloader 7
will give b.p. velocities at pressures that are safe in a '73.  Alliant shows 23.5 grs. under a heavier 240 gr. bullet in the .44-40 giving 1,293 f.p.s. (24" barrel). 

Have fuunnn!
w44wcf

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

LONESOME DOVE;  Remember Gus & the buffalo hunter. 

[Montana Slim]

I've had success with my 44-40 yellowboy rifle out to around 440 yds using a full case of FF & a 200 grain pill.
I didn't know the distance until later, but initially guessed 400 yds, flipped up the elevator, slid the bar to 400 & fired for effect. Was on steel in just a few rounds and a couple adjustments. The gun & BP ammo are well up to the task, even if others don't think so.

Biggest challenge is maintaining body position in relation to the sight. particularly your head as you are going to be holding the head fairly high.

Best of luck!

Slim

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Judge;  Have you had that match at Bisley yet?  I so, please report!

My son lives in Reading and says that his range, which is owned by a farmer, is closed because of certain cattle diseases.  He thinks that parts of Bisley may be closed as well as it does double duty as pasture land.

He rated marksman in the TA again.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Hi, my report back from The N. R .A. Shooting grounds at Bisley Camp :
1.It was great fun plus I learnt what can and cant be done with a 44.40 1866 Uberti carbine at 100&200 yards.
2.We was searing targets with a group of long rang Sharps riflemen,the targets were small to reposent ones at 600yards.
I could just about keep my shots on target at 100yrds ,but found the sites to thick and crude for any accurate shotting at 200yards.
Two of my frends had rifle leagth 73s also Uberti 44.40s beter accuracy with them a bit more refind sites,all in all a good day was had.I got to shoot an 1865 56.50 with a S&S block great fun.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Almost forgot Bisley ranges are open althoe being in the middle of the foot & mouth area.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Judge;  What did you do with drop & wind calculations?

Did anyone use tang sights?  With my old eyes I have to put a peep on anything without glass! I'll bet you fellas are lookin for better sites?

[Judge Roy Bean]

The only people use-sing tang sites were the guys with Shaps rifles,moastly 50.110 cal. The guys with leaver actions all used the sites that they came with. Ie: Uberti's Rossi 92's & 1 Marlin.Nearly all in 44.40 holy black,1 Rossi in 44.mag &the Marlin also in 44.mag.
We did try a bit of Kentucky windedge but it was very windy &drizzling rain usual U.K.weather. At 200yrds we was almost hitting the target nest door, still it was a learning curve.