Belt overlap and fasteners?

[Parson McGrady]

Making my first leather craft project, the belt with a billet. How far should the wide part on the billet end go under the wide part of the chape end?

Also, I need to get something to fasten the billet and chape to the wide part of the belt, in addition to sewing One suggestion was "Chicago Screws" but I'm not sure what's the more appropriate for a "Frontiersman" style belt. Any recommendations?

Blessings,

Parson McGrady

[Slowhand Bob]

I'm not absolutly sure that I understand what you are asking but I'm guessing you are talking Ranger style gunbelt and main body over-lap.  Is it possible that you are working from the Ghormley patterns, as thats the most common reference I've seen for chape?  If you have the chape/buckle and the billet figured out and a waist or hip measurement to work with just position them on the body of the belt in their correct location.  Remember that the actual measurement will be from the buckle to the center hole for the fitting part of the project.  If you are asking what I think you are, now mark the overall length of the belts main body to be even with the outer bellet tip on one end and the outer buckle edge on the other.  This is not a hard set rule and many do vary for artistic appeal but this is the most common.  If I'm wrong in what you want ask again with a bit more detail.

The Chicago screws are ok for buckle attachment and I actually like them better than the common snaps but for a more awthentik approach just use the stitchin alone for attaching the chape and billet to the belt body and copper rivets for attaching the buckle to the chape.  Naturally matching copper rivets could also be used to reinforce the stitching if you so desire.  Once again, I like and use Chicago screws, with blue LocTight on the threads, for most of my work though.

[Irish Dave]

Parson:

If I understand you correctly, I usually arrange the main body of the belt in such a way that even if the billet is buckled in the first (longest) hole, the main portions of the belt are still meeting in the middle or maybe overlapping up to 1 inch.

Not sure if that's what you're asking, but if so, hope this helps. If not, please disregard.

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[Nolan Sackett]

Yep - what Bob said the belt is generally as long or slightly longer than the billet (on others the billet is sewn on at the very end of the belt proper - see Packing Iron for originals)
Here's an example of one of mine showing both ends - I normally use center bar buckles, but single type buckles were also used in the late 19th Century "period":


The "period correct" method for attachment is sewing along with a copper rivet and burr - generally a size 14, but size 12 is OK too.

Hope this helps and as always others mileage will vary.....

[Slowhand Bob]

Great save Nolan, my tongue gets all wrapped round my brain when trying to splain thangs.  If I ever do another web site I am going to add a bit of basic belt information but thats a topic for a different post.

[Parson McGrady]

Hey, you guys understood it better than I explained it, how's that? 

Yeah, Bob, the Ranger belt from the Ghormley patterns. I'll use the Chicago screw for this one and as I get better and am better with the period correct stuff I'll make another with the rivet. A man can't have just one belt...

Tonight I should get most of it done except for the sewing. I expect there'll be some blood-letting and mumbling as I try to get needle and thread to cooperate.

Blessings,

Parson McGrady

[Slowhand Bob]

Parson, there are all kinds of learning materials out there pard and the patterns of which you refer are some great ones.  Really good gun belt and holster books are in somewhat short supply but the good news is that an even better resource in the form of videos have taken up the slack.  One of the better ones is put out by master leather craftsman Nolan Sacket.  Many years of learning was shared with us and of particular interest is his lesson on hand sewing.  Just a heads up and if I can help in any way just holler. 

[Nolan Sackett]

Tonight I should get most of it done except for the sewing. I expect there'll be some blood-letting and mumbling as I try to get needle and thread to cooperate.

Blessings,  Parson McGrady

These tutorials may be of help........
http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/tutorials/_leatherstitch.html
http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/tutorials/_stitchpony.html

[Parson McGrady]

These tutorials may be of help........
http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/tutorials/_leatherstitch.html
http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/tutorials/_stitchpony.html

What makes this funny is before reading the tutorials I went to the Tandy store and bought the Hand Sewing book you recommended.

I've gotten the belt cut and the inital Chicago screws in. Now I'm going to read the book and let it soak in a little while. The sewing looks to be something to think through. Of course, if my wife again asks why I bought the book on sewing I can say "Because Nolan said to!"

Blessings,

Parson McGrady

[Hill Beachy]

Oh.....you meant THAT kind of "belt overlap".   

Never mind!

[Parson McGrady]

Oh.....you meant THAT kind of "belt overlap".   

Never mind!

Yeah, I got that too, thus needing thick leather on a wide belt to kinda make me look at least a little manly...

The first part of this is done. I have the wide belt with Chicago screws and some ugly stiching holding it together. Still need to put the bullet loops on and oil it up. The "How to hand stick leather" book was a great recommendation, as were Nolan's guides. In the end I think I broke every rule and suggestion, along with my awl. But the belt went together and I had fun doing it.

Blessings,

Parson McGrady

[Parson McGrady]

Any recommendations on Awl size and wax? After breaking my first one I'm not sure if it was that th eblade was too long or I was just too clumsy.

Blessings,

Parson McGrady

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Vergez Blanchard VB3.904 Straight Blade Stitching Awl, 38mm. It needs to be worked to a good point, but I seldom need a longer one unless I'm goiing through more than three layers of 8-9oz.

http://www.siegelofca.com/view_cat_product.asp?id=8&curpage=2 Scroll down to find it.

For wax, I use bee's wax.