Colt 3rd Gen. Buntline and 2nd Gen. Black Powders

[Doc Sunrise]

I was fortunate to clean up a few guns from an Estate that were not selling.  I guess up in my area there are not many people interested in great old style guns.  As I was taking my day off to clean these, a 3rd gen. Colt SAA Buntline and 2nd gen. Black Powders, an 1851 Navy SS, a Pocket Navy, an 1860 Army SS, and an 1865 Army Butterfield, the differences in quality between the 3rd gen. and the 2nd gens. were very obvious.  The 3rd gen Colt Buntline had the dished out screw holes, poorly fitted Rubber grips, Burrs galore in the action area, a crown that was oval instead of being round, and a spring that felt more like my dump truck springs than a sixgun.  The Case Colors and Blueing were actually very nice, thank God! 

In comparison to the 2nd gen. Black Powders made at the same time and in parts by Uberti, then assembled and finished here, the Black Powders are great.  I am almost happy Colt didn't make them, as Uberti's quality was far better.

I just don't understand what the heck Colt was thinking when they dishonored the Colt Tradition by building some of the 3rd gen. junk they put out in the early 80's.

Being 2nd gen. Black Powders never fired or turned, all NIB condition with the boxes, papers, and plastic wrappings, I cannot bring myself to shoot them, so there will be no range reports.  Sorry!

[St. George]

Simple.

At that time - they were owned and produced by the United Auto Workers.

Seriously.

Some very good guns came out of Colt back then - but later, the QC program suffered mightily, thanks to the Union, and you're looking at one.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Doc Sunrise]

I know you are right.  It definitely shows when companies and their employees don't get along, their products are substandard and long time traditions are lost.

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[St. George]

A few years back - they were taken to task - privately - by some high-powered folks who showed them 'what' a Colt Single Action Army really 'should' look like.

To their credit - they listened, and the Custom Shop became the producers of the Model P, since they were the ones building the various Commemoratives, and had the necessary skills.

A few years later - the 'new' Third Generation was born - the one with the removeable base pin bushing.

(A simple thing to rectify, if one feels the need to do so - several shops will perform the task.)

Today - Colt offers a Lifetime Warranty on new purchases - with a one-year Warranty on any needed refinishing - and that's a good thing for them to do, from a 'customer service' aspect.

They send certain guns out for certain things that are best done by specialty shops - Ivory grips are fitted by Jim Alaimo at Nutmeg Sports, and the 'Carbonia' finish on the excellent reproduction  Model of 1911 is done by Paul Lippold at Ron's Gun Shop.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Montana Slim]

...well, I have visited the custom shop each time I've visited Colt in the past seven years. Their engravers have also fiitted some excellent ivory grips in-house...these were on a matched pair of presentation SAA .45's for President Bush (GW)...They'll be presented to him after leaving office (They've presented a set to each President for many years). The engraving, gold/silver inlays and finish is pretty darn nice, too. I was fortunate to visit at length with the craftsmen in this department and observe them work, handle the goods, etc. Very good folks, I must say.

Slim

[Deadeye Don]

...well, I have visited the custom shop each time I've visited Colt in the past seven years. Their engravers have also fiitted some excellent ivory grips in-house...these were on a matched pair of presentation SAA .45's for President Bush (GW)...They'll be presented to him after leaving office (They've presented a set to each President for many years). The engraving, gold/silver inlays and finish is pretty darn nice, too. I was fortunate to visit at length with the craftsmen in this department and observe them work, handle the goods, etc. Very good folks, I must say.

Slim

Interesting about Colt presenting guns to Presidents after leaving office.  Last night during the democratic debate Hillary Clinton failed to raise her hand when the question,  "raise your hand if you have ever had a gun in your home".  I guess Bill never told her about the ones he got from Colt.

Safe shooting.  Deadeye.

[Four-Eyed Buck]

There's a LOT of things he hasn't told her. Maybe they're in the garage, not in the house, or at the Presedential Library...................Buck

[piebiter]

Doc, what did you ever decide to do with those 2nd Gen. BP Colt's?  Just curious as to whether you ever broke down and shot any of them. I agree as to their quality. I have a 2nd Gen. "C" series 1851 Navy and she's a shooter. I bought mine new from a dealer back in the 70's and wish I had bought two of them. Since I can only speak for the 1851 Navy, I'll just say that in the right hands she can hold up her end when it comes down to it. Just as importantly, she's a pleasure to shoot.

[Major 2]

I've owned four 2nd Gens ...1 is a 51 Navy ,two 1860 Armys and a 3rd Model Dragoon.

I've shot one of the 60's for 30 years ( bought new ) is now has a R&D Cyl. and is still shot regularly
The other 60 & the Navy are still BP both of these were purchased in the 80's un-fired, but that did not last.
All three were used in Mounted CW reenacting ( and the Dragoon was stolen at a reenactment )

I also bought two 3rd. Gens, a 51 Navy & another 1860 ( and sold them )... they are not the quality guns my 2nd Gens are...
Armi Sport made a Colt 61 Springfield Musket and they were sold as Third Gen Signature models
I had one of those, and it was pretty nice....

[piebiter]

I've owned four 2nd Gens ...1 is a 51 Navy ,two 1860 Armys and a 3rd Model Dragoon.

I've shot one of the 60's for 30 years ( bought new ) is now has a R&D Cyl. and is still shot regularly
The other 60 & the Navy are still BP both of these were purchased in the 80's un-fired, but that did not last.
All three were used in Mounted CW reenacting ( and the Dragoon was stolen at a reenactment )

I also bought two 3rd. Gens, a 51 Navy & another 1860 ( and sold them )... they are not the quality guns my 2nd Gens are...
Armi Sport made a Colt 61 Springfield Musket and they were sold as Third Gen Signature models
I had one of those, and it was pretty nice....

That's as good a testimony as you'll likely hear. Sorry to hear about the Dragoon Major2. That is about as low as a person can get short of murder. Anyone that stoops so low as to steal is lower than a snake's belly in a wagon rut.

[Fiddler Green]

Interesting about Colt presenting guns to Presidents after leaving office.  Last night during the democratic debate Hillary Clinton failed to raise her hand when the question,  "raise your hand if you have ever had a gun in your home".  I guess Bill never told her about the ones he got from Colt.

And all those pictures of Bill and Hilary bird hunting, when he was running for President. Hummmmmm............. It's like sniper fire, easy to forget.

It's not uncommon to give ex-Presidents gifts as they can acctually keep them after they leave office.

Bruce

[Major 2]

And all those pictures of Bill and Hilary bird hunting, when he was running for President. Hummmmmm............. It's like sniper fire, easy to forget.

It's not uncommon to give ex-Presidents gifts as they can acctually keep them after they leave office.

Bruce

We all know Bill has been caught several times "BIRD" Hunting... Hilary on the other hand just gets the bird !

[piebiter]

We all know Bill has been caught several times "BIRD" Hunting... Hilary on the other hand just gets the bird !

Thats because there's no limit and they're never out of season to William Jefferson 

[IT KIDD]

pards, just received two munden b.p. frame 3rd gen colts, after his gunsmith majic, they are like winding a real swiss watch!! even 3 lb. trigger, he also zeroed them in barrel vise at 15 yrds and sent targets.  colt is now producing a fine product!!

[kurt250]

i have at least two of every model colt second gen. i shoot or have shot them all. i sold all my replica c/b's after i got them several years ago. i think the colts are the best. kurt250

[Doc Sunrise]

Well, where to start?  I am certainly hooked on the Colt 2nd. Gen Black Powders.  It has become a daily obsession looking for some of the rarer models.  A couple of weeks ago I saw an Electroless nickel 1860 Army on GunsAmerica.  I couldn't hit the buy button fast enough, only to find out someone purchased it already.

The original sets I got from the Estate sale I am leaving alone in NIB condition.  However, I did come across a Navy that had been shot before, so she and I are going to have some fun.

Major2, I totally agree with you on the 3rd gen. Colt Black Powders.  Quality is hit or miss at best, mainly missing.  And that signature thing is a turn off for me.  I am sorry to hear about your Dragoon.  It is all too easy to think you are among friends when shooting and believe that all shooters hold to a higher standard, only to find there is a snake among us.

I am hooked, deeply hooked.  And I must say, after reviewing my stock portfolio vs. my gun portfolio, even my wife agrees that gun buying is a wise thing after all.  The only think hard to get over is what we guys call a beautiful work of art, she calls pretty.

[kurt250]

to doc. you should try making up some of the combustable cartridges for your colt navy. thats all i shoot in them. can give you info on how to make them if you want to try. give me a call 208-879-6560. kurt250