"Hair"y Trigger

[GA Joe Tyke]

I know this may be a little strange, but how would I go about strengthening the trigger springs?

I have a pair of Heritage-Pietta Rough Riders.  When fully cocked, the triggers are much too soft for me. I usually have 1 or 2 misses per match due to shooting completely over the target while coming into aim.  Several Pards have checked it out, and they agree that the triggers are too light.

Any suggestions

[River City John]

Have a gunsmith check the trigger notch to see if it needs to be reshaped slightly, too. Replacement springs are available from VTI, etc. No practical way that I am aware of to make an existing light spring stronger short of changing them out.



 

[GA Joe Tyke]

It looks like there is enough space to double the spring, after cutting the bolt leaf off the new one. Just doubling the trigger.
I had a suggestion to re-angle the sear notch on the hammer to make it cam inward more, but cutting on the most important adjustment in the gun scares me......

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[Delmonico]

Important: Do the rubber mallet test, unload gun, cock hammer and whap the cylinder a few times and see if the hammer drops, if it does more spring pressure won't make it safer. 

If it don't drop that way how much is the pressure required, if it is over 1.5 to 2 pounds you got for free what lots of folks pay good money for, a trigger that works right.

[Wild Ben Raymond]

Instead of trying to mess with the hammer sear try changing the angle of the trigger where it engages the sear of the hammer. I'll bet the angle is off, worth a try before messing with the hammer. Its cheaper to replace the trigger than the hammer. WBR

[Driftwood Johnson]

PLEASE! DO NOT MESS WITH THE SEAR HAMMER ENGAGEMENT UNLESS YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND HAVE EXCELLENT FILE AND STONING HAND SKILLS!!!

There, now that I've said it, I can explain.

The full cock notch on a hammer is set to a precise angle. The angle of the notch should be ever so slightly positive, so that with no trigger spring present at all, the sear will tend to mechanically wedge itself to the rear of the full cock notch. This means that when the trigger is pulled, the sear is actually wedging the hammer back ever so slightly as the tip of the sear moves out of the full cock notch. That is the way it is supposed to be. A notch that is parallel to the hammer's axis of rotation, is incorrect. The sear should be wedged back slightly. A full cock notch that is slightly negative, so that the sear tends to wedge itself out of engagement is not only incorrect, it is dangerous. The safety built into a slight positive angle, in case the trigger spring should break, is the correct angle. Trigger springs do break. The correct sear angle will be completely parallel to the full cock notch.

My point in telling you all this is that you can ruin a full cock notch and render a gun dangerous with just a couple of swipes of a file. It is also easy to accidentally round off the critical edges of the sear or full cock notch. A rounded or worn edge is neither reliable, nor safe. Lastly, if the hammer or trigger have been case hardened, some modern clones have such thin case hardening that you can cut right through it to the softer steel in just a few strokes of a file. Once you are through the case hardening, the metal just wears all that much quicker.

Still another mistake kitchen table gunsmiths make in attempting trigger jobs is they leave the hammer notch itself alone, but they remove metal from the body of the hammer below the notch, effectively shortening the shelf the sear slides off of. Typically, when this is done, the tip of the overhanging ledge of the half cock notch or the 'safety' notch may start to strike the sear as they rotate past. This is because the sear does not travel as far as it normally does and the two other notches are no longer clearing the tip of the sear. I discovered this fact in my first gunsmithing adventure when I was about 12 years old. More recently, I have had to replace hammers and triggers on used guns I have bought that had botched trigger jobs done by previous owners.

Hammer notch and sear reshaping is usually done by gunsmiths who have a special fixture designed for the purpose. The fixture holds the hammer or the trigger at the precise correct angle, and also limits the angle the stone is drawn at. The smith simply draws his stone accross the fixtured part, and all the guess work is removed.

Again, don't mess with hammer notch and sear angles unless you know exactly what you are doing.

I agree with those that say to check out the notches before you do anything. Somebody may have messed with them, or they may be worn. Don't try the old trick of pushing hard against the hammer with your thumb while it is at full cock. Easy to break a notch or a sear that way, particularly with the clones, been there too. You can probably get away with it with a Ruger. Instead, put the hammer to full cock, and rap the butt of the gun smartly against a table or a floor a couple of times. You don't want a cushioned surface, you want a solid, non-rebounding surface like a heavy wooden table or floor. Give it a couple of good raps. If the hammer falls without you touching the trigger, there is a problem and it needs to be fixed.

You can mess with springs. I'm not familiar with that particular revolver, but if it is a typical colt style clone, and has a split leaf spring for the trigger and bolt, you will probably have difficulty bending it to be stiffer. However you can buy trigger/bolt springs for most clones that are made from music wire. Typically, these springs tend to be lighter, not stiffer, than the leaf springs they are replacing. However it is pretty simple to bend these a tad to make them a little bit stiffer. Probably a pretty simple solution, if your hammer notches and sear are in good shape. You might want to buy a couple of springs to mess with, they are not very expensive. You can buy them from Wolff springs. The guys at Wolff are pretty good with helping you out if you explain problem.

Lastly, believe it or not, if you increase the power of your hammer spring, you will also increase trigger pull. That is because the stronger the hammer spring, the harder the hammer notch is pressing against sear, and the more friction the trigger has to overcome to trip the hammer. I often change out lighter hammer springs, in order to lighten trigger pull.

The folks at Wolff may be able to help you with a stiffer hammer spring for your revolver. They may not. Of course, if you up the power of the hammer spring, it is stiffer to cock.

[Frenchie]

I'm with Driftwood and I think putting in a stiffer hammer spring is the first thing I'd try, because when I was being trained to fix computers they told us if you have several choices of things to do to troubleshoot the system, do the easiest thing first. This looks like the easiest and safest thing to me.

[GA Joe Tyke]

I got some original Gen 2 Colt springs and installed them...   Dropped right in!

A noticeable difference in the pull.  I did the rubber mallet and the tabletop sear test you suggested. No hammer drop.

I believe this solved the problem.  There was a huge difference in the thickness of the springs.  I guess the Heritage/Pietta's come with 'race-ready' springs from the factory.

Special thanx to Curly Bill from Smoky Mt Shooters.  See ya in Oak Ridge..