Utility knives, and pocket watches.

[oscar]

Hi kids, I am a guy who likes to cook w/ dutchovens, been hangin with Del over at the cosie forum. Need alitle help, i met St. George was told he is very knowelegable about what kind of pocket watch a man from the 1800's would wear. I also need a good knife for basic cooking needs, pocket knife ok but a good all round ulitiy knife would be awesome. But a period piece would be cool. Does you folk have pictures and disriptions of such? I looked through allot of thread and did a search for both. I found guys who will make knifes but they seem rather large for cooking and nothing came of the watch search.

Oscar.  Can you help me alittle.

[St. George]

There are good period knives out there that are more than suitable for your needs.

Two 'very' good sources are gun shows - and flea markets.

You'll want to be looking for carbon steel blades - commonly found on butcher knives.

The one 'drawback' on those is that all too often - they've been sharpened far past the point they should - atypical for a 'working' knife.

But - this end of Nebraska was a meatpacking area - so finding suitable cutlery should be no real problem for you.

Dixie Gun Works has some very good knives - new-made and some new-old-stock, I'm sure.

They have a good online catalog - so take a look.

Hell - buy a copy - since it has a wealth of information.

I have three really nice utility knives of the style used for trade - a Green River skinner made by Russell, a period  'Camp Knife' 'probably' made by Russell and a 'Trade Knife' - made by Jimmy Coleman, of Powell, Wyoming.

All would've been common to the era - with about 5 1/2" - 6" blades.

Dixie also has kits - in case you're so inclined - email at - www.dixiegunworks.com

The pocket watch is another matter - and prices vary wildly.

Lower-priced ones can be found reasonably - but having an early watch Cleaned and Oiled and Regulated can cost a couple of bucks and take some real time, should a part be missing and require locating.

Good old ones are pretty cool, though - much more 'satisfying' than a modern one with a quartz movement.

Again - look at the antique malls, flea markets and such and you'll turn something up.

Lincoln has several - as does Omaha - and I've seen some decent ones all ready to go and cleaned, for fair prices.

Good Luck.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[River City John]

Frog69, who posts here, is 'The Boss' on watches, both sales and repair. He usually gives a seminar and has a booth at the NCOWS Convention, too.
You could PM him in here.

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[Books OToole]

My utility knife is a Green River Dadley pattern.  It stays in a sheath, in a small packing barrel with the cooking gear.

I carry a single bladed "Barlow" in a vest pocket and a 6 in. George Worstenholm & Sons "Bowie" on my belt.

L. J. Gibbs' rule # 9 = "Never go anywhere without a knife."

Another good tip:  Carry a sheath knife so that you can get to it with either hand.

Books

[Delmonico]

The day Oscor and I went out I ended up using my back up knives and with everything going on I don't know if I explained it to ya pard.  I have a big box of knives and a second one of ones needing work.  They had been removed ffrom my tresure chest for cleaning and sharpening and some body ended up getting a pup and the got put on a shelf out of his reach and got forgotten.

Some of the Chicago Cutelry wood handled knives are proper shapes, the ones I buy places just get the brand sanded off and the handles re-oiled, not fancy knives but good servicable knives that can be sharpened up good.  I buy up every cheap carbon steel blade I can find, many get reshaped a bit and rehandled.

[oscar]

Thank you everyone, St George,River City,Books, Del I see it is all clear to me now. Del i have some chicago cutlery that would easily convert to a period piece or two. I do think the hand made modern ones I have seen are really nice too. del do you know of a knife maker in Town? i met one by the first name Jeff, at the last flea market for reenactors last january. i know he is a member of Issac Walton but can find his name yet.   

[Lone Gunman]

It's so easy to get off topic with questions like this...but I'll get to that a little later. 

Oscar, have Del take you out junkin'...although he'll probably hoard all the good stuff for himself.    This summer I bought a small box of butchering knives at an antique shop for just $1 each. These are 'real' butcher knives, mostly Green River but some others also. One has 'Cudahy' branded into the handle, another has IH or maybe HI     not sure what that refers to, maybe Hormel. If you resist the urge to impulse buy most things can eventually be found at affordable prices.

Now, to get off track      As St George mentioned, south Omaha was home to all of the 'Big 5' meat packing companies: Cudahy, Armour, Wilson, Swift and Morrell.  Since they've long since left Omaha this post got me wondering when this 'Cudahy' branded knife might have last been used at Cudahy. I think it might have been in the 1970's, but the search for that answer revealed this interesting kidnapping story.  The actual kidnapping happens in 1900 so it's just past our period, but it's well worth the time it takes to read.

[deucedaddyj]

If you're looking for a good original knife, you might want to pick up an issue of Backwoodsman Magazine. On the inside of the back cover they always have several old knives for sell. They're in good shape and only cost about $20-$30.

Plus, it's a great magazine on top of that!

[Ol Gabe]

Not to hijack the thread, but this tidbit adds to the interesting comments by L.G.:
L.G. mentioned knives with a 'Cudahy' marking on them and thought perhaps they were from the packing plant compnay of the same name. Under the '6 degrees of separation' theory, as an NCOWS member reading the comments it brought to mind a family story about my Grandfather. Prior to and during the Great Depression of the late 1920 and 1930's, he took any job he could find as did all Americans of that era when times were tough. He had farmed in and around Gilman, Iowa and hired on with Cudahy as a 'Cattle Buyer', going around the state buying cattle and arranging shipment to the packing plant with the best prices for Cudahy and the farmer. One summer when prices were at an all-time low, he arranged for a load of cattle in Gilman, made up from several local farmers, to be shipped by rail to the Stockyards in Chicago as the market in Omaha was close to shut down and Cudahy thought they could get a better price in Chicago. Well, as luck and the market would have it, Grandpa rode the train into Chicago along with the cattle car in the sweltering summer heat, the livestock was unloaded at the Stockyards, penned, weighed and then loaded back on the same cattle car and sent back to Gilman. The market prices had bottomed out overnight and it was cheaper to send them back home than it was to sell them and take a loss! The family oldsters would tell this story and say Grandpa just hung his head and sighed as there was nothing he could do except return the cattle to the original owners. Everyone took a loss, the farmers got the cattle back but had to continuing feeding them at a loss, Grandpa lost any possible commission and Cudahy lost future customers as the deal caused a lot of bad feelings for the company in the area. 
Regarding the knives, I think we still have some of the old family ones in a box someplace, probably one or two with 'Cudahy' on them no doubt. it'll be interesting to see if anyone else had relatives that worked for Cudahy.
Best regards and good cutting!
'Ol Gabe

[Frog69]

Hi every one , this post just gives me the warm fuzzy feeling and i don't think i peed my shorts... its real nice to see someone try to go the extra step
to add little touches of inauthenticity to there NCOWS look.. Watches are just like guns when you get right down to it .. there are different advances that happened at different times... it is alway ok to have a older style watch with a newer persona than a newer style watch with a older persona. again for these type of decisions  you need to pick a date and a persona (towns person or cowboy or lawman how about an actor etc ) then look to make your detailes fit your date and persona
 

[Dr. Bob]

I have to agree with Frog, pick a time and then find what you need.  That said, I have several watches from the time period that I wear at shoots.  But when it's time to go to the range, I swithch to a cheap repro quartz pocket watch, 'cause I'd rether break a $20 modern watch than a $150+ antique one!!  Just seems like good sense to me.

[Books OToole]

It is the little touches that make an image.

I just did a little research on the site of that other group. (Back-talk or something like that)

The Classic Cowboy Class requires five of the items listed below:

Chaps
Spurs
Cuffs
Tie or Scarf - tied loosly of w/slide*
Vest*
Pocket watch w/ full length chain*
Jacket**
Sleeve garters
Knife*
Botas
Leggings
Braces*

This is a pretty good list of items that would give your image that little something extra.

The items marked with a * are items that I wear as part of my standard outfit.  The double ** would be my duster instead of a jacket.

In a couple weeks I will participating for the first time at one of that other groups shoots.  I may add spurs to my outfit for that shoot.

Other items that I routinely carry are;
*a horn comb
*period cigars in period case
*a pocket compass
*period spectacles in a period case (for reading)
*matches in period case/box

Here's a tip;  Empty your pockets right now.
Find a 19th century replacement for everything you you routinely carry (except your keys).  Most good venders carry anything you will need.  And it won't be that expensive.

Books

[Irish Dave]

Keeping in mind that my persona is typically an 1890s -era "Townie" -type (marshal, pinkerton, other detective):


I will usually wear/carry:

Tie (if cravat style I use a stickpin)
Collared shirt or banded with detatchable collar
Vest
Pocket watch w/ full length chain and charm
Coat or Duster (sometimes)
Braces
Typical "townie" lace-up ankle shoes (repro) or (occasionally) period-style boots
a comb (by my time black gutta percha was available)
cigarettes in a metal case or box
period eyeglasses (reproductions)
matches in period matchsafe or box


Just an FYI.

[oscar]

Thank you to everyone, this is another example of just how awesome this counrty is, here we are talking history over items and great unbelievable stories of real folks come pouring back on us to all learn and appreciate from. This country was built by tough people like Ol Gabe's Grandfather. We need to get tough during these times as tough times could catch us with out too. I am honored just to read this stuff and ask questions. Again thank you. Say a prayer to your grampa he would appreciate it.

[oscar]

I have found a 6" knife made by chicago cutlery. It is now plain with no markings. I'm having a friend sew me a leather sheath, a simple sheath with simple lines. I think that boiled lynseed oil might look good on the handle. It that ok or not. I assume yes as they did not have much in the way of treatments for the wood handle, He*% maybe just lard would suffice. It would be period correct to get lard on your knife and the oil would allow the wood to sew and hold good to the shank. The oil woil stop rust and bring out the natural gain of the wood. I think I just answered my own question. How about that!

[St. George]

Try Olive Oil - after you've sanded off the company name.

Chicago Cutlery came about in 1930.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!