Short Strokes BANNED?

[Guage Rod]

Cal and Lou, I do not want to give my posse a bad name.  I have been shooting with them for just over a year and they have been very leanient with me when it comes to Guns, as they are with everyone.  I hope I did not get anyone in trouble.  I will definately be doing some horse trading and retrofiting this winter to get guns that comply.  I can say that I have been very lucky to fall in with a great bunch of posse members and believe they have their heart in the right place by allowing me to shoot the not so PC weapons.  I am sorry if I mislead anyone into thinking the posse shoots are not supposed to be done with correct weapons. 

I am just beyond a rookie and may have put my horse's hove in my mouth this time.  I do know for certain that at the regionals I brought the right stuff, and had a blast. 

To me the Folks I shoot with are top notch and I want to get the right gear as an "espree' de core" as well as the cowboy way. 

I do think as you said there are folks willing to lend or bring extra weapons for those who do not have all of the gear.  This is good stuff and lends itself to a wonder sport that can attract, a lot of shooters as well as non-shooters. 

Sorry that I muddied the waters, did not mean to!

If anyone has a 73 Winny with a short stroke, and wants to sell it send me a PM, I will be glad to make them an offer

Vaya Con Dios!

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

CaL and Lou,
Yours is an excellent post and good information from folks that have probably been at this (NCOWS) as long as anyone in our organization.

Bill

[Hell-Er High Water]

I've been following this topic for what seems like months now and decided to measure the throw on my rifle and report.  I shoot an original '73, built in 1885 that has been converdted to 45 Colt caliber.  There have been no internal modifications done to this rifle.  With my machinists protractor the throw on this rifle measures 79 degees of arc from the fully closed to the fully open position.  It seems that limiting legal guns to 80 - 90 degrees of throw would exclude some original, unmodified guns.  I throw this out for what it's worth as the arc of travel limitation may not be a valid limit to impose.  In all likelyhood, as has been mentioned before, with the manufacturing tolerences of the day, arcs of travel varied from one gun to another.  My gun may be on the minimum side, but then again it may not be.  Who is to say until a much larger sample is measured and reported on.

HHW

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[Dr. Bob]

howdy HHW,

Thanks for making the measurement and sharing it with us.  No need to set an angle measurnment.  What has been banned is "short stroke kits."  Members agree, by joining, to abide by the rules of the organization.  Seem so simple.  If you believe in the Cowboy Way, you can do no less.

[Lars]

I shoot an original '73, built in 1885 that has been converdted to 45 Colt caliber.  There have been no internal modifications done to this rifle.  With my machinists protractor the throw on this rifle measures 79 degees of arc from the fully closed to the fully open position.  It seems that limiting legal guns to 80 - 90 degrees of throw would exclude some original, unmodified guns.  I throw this out for what it's worth as the arc of travel limitation may not be a valid limit to impose.  In all likelyhood, as has been mentioned before, with the manufacturing tolerences of the day, arcs of travel varied from one gun to another.  My gun may be on the minimum side, but then again it may not be.  Who is to say until a much larger sample is measured and reported on.

HHW

Thanks Hell-Er High Water!!

With your measurement, the range now seems to be something like 30 degrees, from about 80 to about 100 degrees -- assuming everyone is measuring the same angle, in the same manner -- something that can easily affect the results. You measured from the fully closed to the fully open. Some folks seem to have been measuring relative to the bore-line -- actually, I am a bit confused about just how they measured the angles they reported.

On the other hand, maybe it really is too bad that those Itallians did not use your rifle to copy -- then maybe all this "shortstroke" nonsense would never have happened.

Lars

[Dakota Widowmaker]

I have heard from SEVERAL original model 1873 owners that the angle was closer to 75" than 90" for the full open position on their levers.

Too bad nobody makes an "original angle" kit or that the repliguns use the original angle either.

Almost a "baby and the bathwater" issue, if you ask me.

Was there any discussion about the "lightning rod" that AW Smith sells? I could really care less about speed, but, I don't like the idea of my Henry hammer and firing rod finding and early grave.

http://awsmiths.altairsolutions.net/

[Quick Fire]

Now Joss, don't go opening up another can of worms.

[Dakota Widowmaker]

Never quite understood the reason behind Rugers getting such a bad rap with NCOWS.
(Bill Ruger Sr. was a wierd old bird, but, his son is not half bad)

I shoot blackhawks for SASS. (hey, the adjustable sights are worthless anyways)

No, Rugers were not around during those days. But, the Vaquero is based ALOT on the SAA.
(if that is the only reason, I guess its a fight not worth bringing up again)

I shoot Rems, now...I will forever be a "Remington man" when it comes to NCOWS events.

[Lars]

Dakota Widowmaker,

You are touching on the very issue that concerned me a lot about the "short stroke" modification ban, that is, that is is just the start of a broader attact on internals that are different than those in guns actually made in the late 1800s. I for one, would simply drop out of NCOWS if I had to shoot toggle-link rifles and Colt-copy cartridge revolvers. I might stay around and use one of Hartford Armory's Remingtion 1890 replicas and my Rossi, IF I thought I would get enough use from the cost of the new revolver.

I too find the often encountered "anti-Ruger" attitude in NCOWS members rather hard to understand.

Lars

[Will Ketchum]

I really don't see the anti Ruger bias that has been mentioned.  As River City John said it is only the Bisley Vaquero that was disapproved.  I shot Ruger Vaqueros for my first 5 NCOWS National matches and it was a personal decision on my part to refrain from using them in NCOWS matches only because I wanted to get closer to the 1890 experience.  No one is considering banning the Vaquero nor any of the 92 clones.

Most NCOWS people don't care what others shoot or wear.  For us it is a personal experience. 

Will Ketchum

[Fox Creek Kid]

Dakota Widowmaker, I find nothing on A.W. Smith's website about a so called "lightning rod". Could you explain what this is? 

[Sod Buster]

Dakota Widowmaker, I find nothing on A.W. Smith's website about a so called "lightning rod". Could you explain what this is? 

For a picture of it, go to:
http://www.awsmiths.com/
and click on "gallery"

[Lone Gunman]

I could really care less about speed, but, I don't like the idea of my Henry hammer and firing rod finding and early grave.

Since original Winchesters didn't have roller bearing firing pin extensions I'd be 99 44/100ths % sure they will go on the unapproved list...but that's just my opinion...at least for now.       

I can say for certain that I've never, ever seen anyone wear out the firing pin extension or hammer, but if they did the part the lightning rod replaces is only $11 from VTI (the lightning rod is $85) and a new hammer is only $45. If, for some reason, they 'look' like they're wearing a little dab of good grease is probably all it would take to stop that.

[Lone Gunman]

“My hypocrisy goes only so far.”

[Grizzle Bear]

Yep, just drop it in the creek and swish it around a bit, that's good enough for me.......


Anyway, most originals look like they were "cleaned" that way!

Grizzle Bear