Repro 1876 Win. Photos

[Fox Creek Kid]

I snatched this juicy tidbit off the SASS Wire. Some SWEEEEEEEEEEETT photos and a German guy who posted it has one and says the finish is BETTER than an Uberti!! I think you people should pass the hat to "fund" a sample for me to evaluate!    By the way, the website is in German. 

http://www.chaparral-arms.de/produkte/1876.html

[Wymore Wrangler]

Oh how I want one....

[Lone Gunman]

You can be  going to the  http://babelfish.altavista.com/ and be pasting the url of the website for the rifle 1876 and whole thing in total  will be translate to the  English in just the very short time...well is close, eh Joe? 

[Advertising]

[Fox Creek Kid]

Luckily, I work with a German fella + I had three years of University level German. It loosely translates as:  "Lone Gunman, buy one for the Fox Creek Kid to evaluate." Of course, that's a very loose translation. 

[Lone Gunman]

Wenn Schweine fliegen!

[Grizzle Bear]

Wenn Schweine fliegen!

Even I can speak that much German!

GB

[Ol Gabe]

Isn't this the same company we were jawin' about in the 'Tom Horn Category' thread? If it looks like a German company selling Italian-made (Bresica) rifles of American heritage to an international consumer base, then yep, its gotta be them!
Best regards and Buy American!
'Ol Gabe

[Lars]

There remains, maybe, the question of actual bore diameters. Note that the website gives 0,405 and 0,454. Are these the old European bore diameters BEFORE rifling or are they the "American" bore diameters, which are really groove-to-groove AFTER the rifling is cut?

Note that they give NO bore diameters for the 1873 or SAA replicas, so, cannot do check that way.

Winchester 1876 Sporting - Brüniert
Lauflänge:    22" / 26" / 28"
Drall:    20"
Laufdiameter:      .405 / .454
Schaft:    Triwood finish Fancy
Magazin:    Vollmagazin
Finish:    Brüniert
Lieferbar in:    Kal. 40 - 60 Win.
                   Kal. 45 - 60 Win.
                   Kal. 45 - 75 Win.
Preis gleich welche
Lauflänge:    1.123,- Euro

Lars

[French Jack]

Since the two measurements are given, it would be safe to assume that they are stating the bore and groove diameters.  This would allow for standard .45 pistol bullets to be used ( not Cartridges ). Most rifle cartridges in SAAMI are .450-2 bore, and .458 groove diameter.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

The address I reached for this outfit, from the TOM HORN thread, was in English.  They seem to be offering 45-75, 45-60, & 40-60.  Two models;  octagon rifle, and octagon short rifle.

The proof will be in the shooting.  I'd love to hear a report.

Sir Charles deMouton Black 1154

[Lars]

Jack,

Those two measurements, 0,405 and 0,454, are for nominal 40 caliber and nominal 45, NOT bore and groove.

Why would they make a rifle chambered for 45-60 and 45-75 Winchester and then have the barrel dimensioned for 45 Colt? Am I missing something?

Mike Venturino gives 0,457-0,459 for cast bullets to be loaded in 45-60 and 45-75. Furthermore, he states "every .45 caliber Model 1876 whose bore I have personally slugged has measured .457 inch."

Mike gives 0,406 for the 1876 he tested in 40-60, so, maybe the 0,405 number given on the German site is actual groove-to-groove diameter.

Lars

[Books OToole]

I just have one question.  "How do are you going to get back down this mountain?"

Now seriously, why is this topic on the NCOWS only site?

Books

[Dr. Bob]

Howdy,

This morning, 1.200 Euro equals $1,435.97.  Then there would be shipping, customs & duty.  Better find someone who can import them in some quantity from Bresica.  Maybe Taylors?? 

[Terry Lane]

Howdy all,
I believe the US importer will be/is Charter 2000 (Charter Arms). Take care.

[French Jack]

Lars, if those are indeed the measurements for two calibers, then I would strongly suspect that they are bore diameters not groove diameter.  Most of the 40 calibers in use now use bullets that measure from .409 to .412,(groove) and the 45's usually would measure .458 groove.

[Lars]

Jack,

That those are bore diameter BEFORE rifling does make more sense for a European-made gun specs on a German-language site.

Looking a bit more closely in Mike Venturino's book "Lever Guns of the Old West" I do see that nominal 40 caliber bullets may be sized as large as at least 0,410. Following your information, the Itallian-made 1876 replica would have approximately 0,005 deep rifling, which is sorta consistant with what I see given for other Itallian-made 43 to 46 caliber guns.

Lars

[Hell-Er High Water]

For those that may be interested.  A friend and I were just on the phone with Cimarron Arms this afternoon and we were told that Mike Harvey has on display at the SHOT Show the Cimarron pre-production model of their Winchester M'1876.  We were told that is being made by Uberti and should be available in the Fall of this year.  No price was available to be quoted over the phone at this time.  It will be interesting to see that if now, all of a sudden, we are going to have two manufacturers and two suppliers for this rifle.  Lets hope that we get some details on both soon.

HHW

[Hell-Er High Water]

I just went to the Cimarron web site and there it is.

HHW

[Lars]

In addition to guns, they are marketing cases and bullets for 40-60, 45-60 and 45-75 and loaded ammo. Bullet diameters for 40-60 are 0,406 and for the other two 0,458 -- sorta answers questions I had above. The 40-60 is with 240 and 300 grain bullets, whereas the 45s are 300 and 340 grain bullets. They are also selling Redding dies for these calibers.

Chamber pressure on these loads is given as 1.100 bar (about 16.170 psi) and muzzle velocities at about 420 m/sec.

See these webbpages:
http://www.chaparral-arms.de/produkte/komponente.html
and
http://www.chaparral-arms.de/produkte/munition.html

They are also selling paper 12X67,5 primed hulls (209S).

Lars

[44caliberkid]

Dear Hell Er High Water, I still don't think we're looking at two manufactures here.  They are most likely all made by Uberti or another Italian company, and sold by different distributors (Cimmaron, Chapparal, Taylors, whatever).  A bigger question is the availability of brass or loaded ammo and what it's gonna cost.  Presently, twenty 45-75 cases from Bertram cost $60, the only available 45-75 I could find, so unless Starline or Hornady start crankin' em out, we can't afford to shoot one.