Author Topic: C&B Question  (Read 2866 times)

Offline Major Matt Lewis

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C&B Question
« on: January 02, 2006, 08:20:11 PM »
As stated, I was at the range today...I broke out a pair of 1860 Armys that I got for Christmas.  For propellant I was using Pyrodex Pellets.  I was using CCI caps.  Once I put the caps on the nipples, it would seem that they were not fully seated.  Because when I dropped the hammer on the caps the first time, they would not fire.  After the first rotation, the caps would ignite on the second go around as if they were being seated the first time.  I DO chalk this up to user error.  What was I doing wrong to not have them ignite on the first go round?
Major Matt Lewis
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Offline Mason Stillwell

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Re: C&B Question
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2006, 08:55:22 PM »
Not an error. You need a cap seater. I use a deer antler that Cactus Cris made for me I will include a photo if I can.

Mason

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Offline Sam Perfye

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Re: C&B Question
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2006, 08:57:26 PM »
Major, In my experiance caps must be matched to the nipples. Most Italian repos take #11 caps. If you're using #10 caps, the first strike will only seat the cap, the second strike will set them off. Experiment with different sizes and brands of caps to see what works best. Also, a switch to after-market stainless steel nipples may help. Good luck & see ya at convention.
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Re: C&B Question
« Reply #3 on: Today at 05:59:57 PM »

Offline Mason Stillwell

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Re: C&B Question
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2006, 09:22:07 PM »
If you are gonna go so far as to change the nipps give Tresco a try. Get them  from Thunder Ridge Muzzle loading.Only change if yer nipps need changing . Some dont.
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Offline US Scout

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Re: C&B Question
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2006, 05:23:32 AM »
My experience with the repros is that the nipples are all of various sizes - I once found four different sized nipples on one pistol.  I change them all so they are all of consistant size.  I like the Tesco nipples recommended by Mason Stillwell. 


Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: C&B Question
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2006, 09:01:31 AM »
Howdy pard!

Stop in up at the Darksiders Den with yer question! We got threadd up there that will answer any question ya got about shooting Cap gunz! 8)

But, while I'm here I'll cuts & paste an old artical from The Cowboy Chronical on the subject of getting nipples and caps right....

          The Great Capping Controversy
 (how to avoid the whole thing and still enjoy Frontiersman)

Howdy gang!

Back in the May issue of "The Chronicle", Old Scout, SASS Life #34718, wrote about capping our Cap & Ball pistols and the inherant dangers, or lack thereof, involved. Old Scout did a great job of testing and documenting his efforts to find out just how dangerous the chore might or might not be, along with testing for the results of an out of battery discharge. I enjoyed the fact that he covered the various seating methods employed and noted the possible level of danger to the shooter and bystanders. Then along comes the June issue and a letter from Silver Sam, SASS Life #34718 expressing his frustration over the rule that prevents "hammer seating" of percussion caps. And I certainly understand Silver Sams feeling on that matter! Once one gets used to a method of doing something, and it never seems to be a problem, it's difficult to accept that someone else can see a possible danger in that method...human nature at work there!

Well, Old Cuts is going to enter the controversy and tell y'all the answer to the cap seating dilema. The answer is DON'T. It's that simple! You see the whole "seating" thing really isn't needed, and I'll tell you why in a bit here. But first...

Happens that I am one of those pards who Old Scout mentioned as having a cap detonate under "finger pressure". Yes it can happen! The results ain't fun or pretty! For those who want the gory details, it happened in either June or July (I would have to check with the local Sheriffs office to be sure. It was recorded as a "firearms related injury" at the time and the doctor called in the Deputies to record the details) of 1986 in Marion County, Iowa. I was in a farm lane on my in-laws property doing a bit of target practice when a cap that I was "seating" on my 58 Remington detonated under the pressure of my thumb. Now a percussion cap doesn't have much power, not much more than the explosive force of a cap designed for toy cap guns, but the escaping gases coming back through the nipple hole from the ignition of the powder DO HAVE CONSIDERABLE FORCE!. Without the hammer down over that little hole enough hot gas can escape to do a lot of damage to any digit in its path. When it happened I ended up with a thumb that looked kind of like a peeled banana, only black! The nail bed was laid back down over the knuckle of my thumb, a strip was peeled down the inside radius, and the meaty ball was sort of bulged out. This left the bone exposed on the end of my thumb! (OUCH!) After washing and wire brushing away all the charred stuff the Sawbones was able to pull every thing back together and sew it up by running stitches through the thumbnail and the meaty part. But there was a piece missing that he couldn't do anything about. It really didn't hurt though, in fact I've never felt anything in that thumb again! Apparently the nerve bundle on the inside of the thumb was instantly cauterized. Made fer a bit of a hassle to relearn how cock a revolver!

So, Cuts decided to make sure he never had to "seat" a cap again! And it isn't that difficult! My first effort in that direction was to purchase nipples (did you know the old timers called them "tubes"?) that fit my caps properly. In those days the availability of various caps and nipples wasn't all that great. But a little perserverance found a combination that fit properly. The caps would go all the way down on good fitting nipples with only a little pressure from the capping tool. And there was just enough friction to keep them in place during cycling and firing the gun. That's the way it' supposed to work, no pushing them down on with a dowel or yer finger, and no pinching them to make them fit tight enough to stay on. Just press them on with the capping tool and keep going! Simple! Right? Well...no, not exactly. Seems that nipples tend to batter and get out of shape, Which makes it harder to press a cap onto them after a while. And sometimes you just can't find the right combination of caps & nipples to achieve that perfect fit. So what do you do? Use yer finger or a dowel? The answer is neither of those! You make the nipple fit the caps!

If you have access to a lathe this is a pretty simple job. But most folks don't have a machine shop laying around the house. I know, I don't anyway! But there's still a pretty easy way to make those nipples fit yer caps, it's not hard, and it doesn't require expensive tools. All you need is a fine toothed file, some emory cloth, and an electric hand drill! Simply chuck the offending nipple in the drill, closing the jaws on the "shoulder" of the nipple to avoid damaging the threads. Then hold your fine toothed file against the "tube" and pull the trigger on the drill. Use very light pressure to hold the file against the nipple while it spins, stopping frequently to check fit with a cap. (Stop the drill when do this!!!!) When you have removed enough metal so that the cap just slides down onto the nipple with minimal pressure, then polish things up a bit with the emory cloth, not too much because you want to maintain a friction fit...and you're done! You now have a perfect fitting cap & nipple combination that doesn't require placing yoru fingers in danger or the use of a special pushing tool to seat the caps all the way down. All you have to do is place a cap over the nipple with your capping tool and press lightly, then pull the tool straight out. It will save you some time at the loading table, no more concerns about the dangers of hammer seating, and your fingers will thank you for your efforts on their behalf! And from Snakebite, SASS Life #4767, comes the tip to carry an old toothbrush in your kit, to brush away accumilated soot from the nipples at the unloading table. This helps more than you'd imagine!

Now, go shoot that fine old time cap gun, and have fun...safely!

Yer Pard,

Cuts Crooked, SASS #36914
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44caliberkid

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Re: C&B Question
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2006, 02:52:16 PM »
Major Matt, stop at the nearest Wally World and pick up some Remington #11 caps, will probably solve your problem.  Push them on firmly with a piece of dowel if need be.
  Cuts, I believe every word, but still mostly use my thumb because the pusher stick is a hassel during matches.  I may learn the hard way someday or may try to stick with the stick.  I'm more concerned about my left hand, the fingers of which are wrapped around the cylinder, in case of an AD.  Probably a bad burn at the least.

Lars

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Re: C&B Question
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2006, 05:39:50 PM »
ALL the new C&Bs (save Ruger Old Armies) I have seen have quite a range of diameters to the nipple cones, even on a single gun. The result being that no one cap size is really correct. I "machine" all to the same size (1075 for my Remington New Model Armies). The proper size is such that the caps can be easily and fully seated -- no need for any forcefull seating -- but still stay securely on the nipples.

Buying some aftermarket nipples that are uniform in size and the correct size for one of the brands and sizes of commercial caps is a common way to go.

Lars

Offline Lone Gunman

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Re: C&B Question
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2006, 09:51:49 PM »
Don't listen to a word these guys are saying. Your guns are perfectly fine, that's the way they're suppose to work. Don't change a thing. Everything is as it should be, tinkering with them could cause irrepairable harm. Soon, with a little practice, you'll accept the second rotation through the cylinder as the normal procedure it is. I look forward to shooting against you in the Pistoleer class soon.

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Offline Steel Horse Bailey

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Re: C&B Question
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2006, 11:46:28 PM »
Between LG's answer to Maj. Matt, and Bill's hat, this is why I love NCOWS and the people here so much!!!
"May Your Powder always be Dry and Black; Your Smoke always White; and Your Flames Always Light the Way to Eternal Shooting Fulfillment !"

 

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