I have some Rocky Mountain 12 gauge brass and load with 80 grains of bp, over powder card and usually a wad. I trimmed down a 100 grain spout to 80 and put it on my flask, works great. Sometimes I use a few layers of wasp nest in place of the card/wad, then equal amount of shot and a card held in place with elmers. They work great. I deprime with a long nail and seat the new primer with a dowel. I love telling some friends who are avid trap shooters that I load with a hammer, nail and dowel. My brother in law wanted to know if I was leaving him the shells in my will because they are way more stout than the others on the market. I cant really tell a difference with the wasp nest vs card/wad, but I never really patterned the gun.