Author Topic: 12ga Brass  (Read 1793 times)

Offline Dave T

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12ga Brass
« on: December 31, 2020, 11:25:45 AM »
It would appear that like most ammunition and primers, 12ga brass shotgun shells are a thing of the past. I spent a good part of yesterday looking for a box (even used ones) but came up empty handed. I had no idea there was that much jewelry made from shotgun shells! LOL

If anyone here has some used 12ga brass shells they've given up on, or if anyone knows of a source please speak up. Other wise I'll not be buying that double hammer coach gun I have my eye on. Ya can't buy regular shotgun ammo and if I can't load BP, the heck with it. (sad face goes here)

Dave

Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2021, 12:34:58 PM »
You can easily load the True Powder in Plastic cases. I pour the powder in separately, with a dipper.

I haven't looked for brass cases recently as I seem to have a lifetime supply. Old paper shells are as PC as brass, actually moreso, but hard to shuck-eject. I have some Remington NITRO 27 in gold coloring that I use. Don't bother with cheep discount hulls as they pinhole way too soon.

You might have to experiment, but any Remington hull seems to shuck out the easiest for me. You might also try roll crimping or the Hartin crimp?
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Offline Abilene

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2021, 02:47:23 PM »
... have some Remington NITRO 27 in gold coloring that I use....

When I load in plastic hulls, that is what I use.  They look sort of like brass shells.  :)  I can get at least 5 loadings using real BP.  I'll use the similar green STS if I run out of gold ones.

I have an unopened box of REM-UMC brass hulls that I am saving.  I figure the value will only go up.

Offline Dave T

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2021, 05:01:48 PM »
My only experience loading black powder in 12ga was with a bunch of old Alcan brass 12g shells I found at a gun show back about 1986-87. They took a special size primer (can't remember the particulars now) but I found a 1000 of them in a shop that specialized in shotgun stuff. Still had all the brass and a couple hundred primers left when I sold off all that stuff to start my own business in 1995.

I have no idea how to do a roll crimp on a paper/plastic shell. Anywhere I can go to learn about this? I don't do well with internet searches. LOL

Dave

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2021, 06:25:00 PM »

 >:(  Harrumpff   >:(

I'm afraid I can't make that Last Great Leap of Desperation.  I don't see Ammunition, Reloading Primers, Percussion Caps, Reloading Brass nor 12Ga Brass as a "Thing of the Past".  Currently in short supply??  Sure.  Gone forever??  Nah. 

The manufacturers will be working hard to get their production staff back to work and put the goodies we desire back in the supply chain.  It may well take a Day or Six, but it is going to get better.  And Better.

So . . . Go ahead and pick up that coveted Hammer Double.  I did.  I am also about to pick up a nice brandy Knew-Two-Ewe handguns.  Suppository Guns.  Ain't that just about enough to Chap yer As. . . .  Yep.  Suppository Shooters.  Humdingers!!

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #5 on: Today at 03:55:30 PM »

Offline Blackpowder Burn

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2021, 07:07:53 PM »
Dave, take a plastic hull, load 60 grains of FFg, then a Claybuster 1138-12 wad, then 1-1/8 ounce of shot.  Crimp and shoot!

You'll get some of the plastic from the wad adhere to the barrel, but a short Moose Milk spray down and soak, then it will push right out with a patch.
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2021, 09:25:55 AM »


 :)  Well Dang   ;)

In all honesty, I find the "Snake Skin" to be a curiosity.  At a couple of points during a Match, I look down the tubes and wonder.  The tubes look like a Sewer Pipe.  Makes one wonder if they will ever clean.

Yep.  The tubes will certainly clean.  Amazing.  At some point the week after a match I remember to clean guns.  I squirt a fair amount of PAM down the barrels an let 'em sit for a couple of minutes then shove a brush, also PAM'd down the bore and PRESTO - CHANGEO .... clean tubes. 

Incidentally - I also have and use some aerosol cans of Windshield Cleaner from the local Windshield repair shop.  At stuff works a treat too.  Healthy squirt down the bores, out it comes.  Then, there is the old standby.  Warm/Hot Water.  Same same result.  No sweaty da. 

Plastic wads give me the "Over-Powder" the "Cushion" and the "Shot Cup" all in one.  Keeps loading All Brass Hulls really really simple and fast.

Is it SPRING YET!!!

Stay Safe

Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2021, 12:33:13 PM »

I have no idea how to do a roll crimp on a paper/plastic shell. Anywhere I can go to learn about this? I don't do well with internet searches. LOL
Dave

Roll crimps or Hartin crimps are a "nice to know" and not necessary to make sound and fury. Lots of info here on cascity to satisfy your curiosity through the search function. Roll crimps require a roll crimp head, the best is from "precision". The Hartin crimp can be done on a regular press without adjustments. Both are useful if you have 2.5 inch chambers. Over shot cards can be punched from a milk carton with a 5/8" hollow punch.
NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”

Offline Black River Smith

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2021, 01:36:55 PM »
You can easily load the True Powder in Plastic cases. I pour the powder in separately, with a dipper.

You might have to experiment, but any Remington hull seems to shuck out the easiest for me. You might also try roll crimping or the Hartin crimp?

Sir, can you explain or put a link to what you refer to as a 'Hartin Crimp'?  The only thing I can find is a Harting Crimp tool.  But it does not look like something that could be used on shotgun shells. ???  I can roll crimp but have never heard of Hartin Crimps.

Thanks
Black River Smith

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2021, 05:16:17 PM »
Greetings My Good Netizens

Her is the poop on the Hartin Crimp, As our friend Sir Charles posted in the past

Hope this helps

Snip........
Charles deMouton-Black

Re: Black powder and plastic hulls...
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2015, 05:09:48 PM »

Here is a quote from a post of mine back in 2008;

"If you have 2 3/4" chambers, star crimps with paper, or plastic work great.  DD has one of your options, that is to get shorter wads.

If you want to try shorter, 2 1/2" cases, but not bother with roll crimp tools, etc., try  the JAM ROLL. Apparently an earlier inventor of this concept was named Hartin, and it can be called the "Hartin crimp".

-Trim cases
-load your favorite recipe.  Adjust the load to leave about 3/8" (Or a bit less) of clearance from the load to the lip of the case
-top the load with an over shot card.  No O/S wads?  For 20 ga., bash some out of a wax paper milk carton with a 5/8" punch.
-Run the loaded case through your shotshell press's crimp start and crimp stations.  I've tested this crimp on a 12 ga. MEC Grabber, and a 16 ga. MEC 600Jr."

From "16ga.com", a thread with visuals (12 Dec15, on page two)

http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18347&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=hartin+crimp&start=15

The result is that the folds of the case mouth are turned in on the O/S wad, which is still visible as a star shape.  A bonus is that the plastic doesn't get heat hardened and the case can be re loaded many more times.
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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #10 on: Today at 03:55:30 PM »

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2021, 05:56:34 PM »
 :)  Hey Perfesser   ;)

Much Garcia  :D   Never seen that before.  Of course, I have NEVER reloaded plastic shotgun hulls either.  In my Heathen Smokeless days, I found factory AAs (Feather Lights) from Wally World to be as cheap and OH SO much easier.  Never bothered.

Then I became enlightened.  Following my enlightenment, I discovered just how easy it is to load All Brass Hulls.  Never looked back.  I have taken several steps to make All Brass Hull loading more convenient and reliable but ALL BRASS HULLS ROCK!!!

But that is a real interesting way to load Plastic Hulls.  I have been offered a "Load All" for a very appealing price (Free), and have access to a lifetime supply of one fired Plastic hulls.  Just nowhere near the COOL factor.

Stay Safe

PS:  An Afterthought.  I had a thought (Oh Oh The PAIN!!)  IT'S gonna be a long winter.  I may well need a "project."  A useful, useable project.  After all, Plastic hulls do shuck out a tiny bit bedder dan Brass.   Hummmmmmmmmmm.

Offline Black River Smith

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2021, 06:04:59 PM »
Thank you, that make sense to me now.  A specific internet search did not bring that up.  Appreciate.
Black River Smith

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2021, 09:26:54 PM »
Ah My Dear Coffin
Back when I was in a club and shooting trap 3 times a week I bought a nice big MEC!
Awesome thing, pull the lever, shove in an empty, churned out the 12 ga shells like a little conveyor factory. of course when something jammed up it was ... unfortunate.

So I sold that and the rem 1100’s but got a Lee Loader ...
That thing is simple, neat, easy to work, and easy to fix. If anything breaks, a piece of aluminum and JB Weld will handle it! I love old school.

Speaking of old school, as I went collecting other peoples garbage, I ended up with several ( ie more than two) old iron presses, and at least two are old school monster iron ( ca 1950 ish? ) 12 ga presses...
I need to do some searching and restoring, methinks...

Also In my pile of scheiss precious objects  I have an antique shotshell kit with the ubiquitous roll crimper! I need to make that thing work for 2.5 inch paper shells....

Regarding the unavailability of brass shotshells ... where there is a will , there is a way! I have been experimenting with making my own shells for my IAB Sharps 1863 percussion paper cutter, and have several protoypes, some made entire of soldered plumbing bits, some made of 28 ga shells bottoms and soldered on tubing, and there is always the heavy machined brass cartridges. One outfit even made the extra thick cases such as the .44-100 Ballard Everlasting, which last darn near forever...

So if one wanted, one could slowly turn out a bunch of cases on a little lathe...
Where there are machine  tools, there is a way....

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Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2021, 10:31:18 AM »
Why did I suggest using a dipper to insert the gunpowder?

Because;
1.  There is a slight possibility of static electricity. Some poh-pooh this and say "NO proof". Some makers like Lyman have created static-proof powder measures to solve this little "problem".
2.  Dippers work! Lee has these wonderful sets and I have both red and yellow series. (I also make  dippers from empty cartridge cases. Leave the fired primer in and look for the one that fits your load or trim to suit.) They are no slower than removing a case from the loader to dump with a powder measure and precision is easy to achieve by uniformity of handling technique.
3.  As you get fewer loads per pound from BP than fad-powder, I load many more fad loads than with the true gunpowder, saving that for matches, and practising with the slightly cheaper smokeless loads.

SMOKELESS IS JUST A FAD!
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THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2021, 11:17:39 AM »


 :)  SIR CHARLES   ;)

Absolutely.  Yesssss Indeed!!  When loading Brass Hulls, I do da dip.  Made my scoop from a fired cartridge case.  Big Rifle thing.  Don't remember what it was.  My loading block holds 30 Hulls.  Funnel with the scoop doesn't take any time atall.

Happy New Year
Stay Safe

Offline Lucky R. K.

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2021, 10:06:36 AM »

Some time ago I modified the charge bar on one of my MEC grabbers to load black powder. Bored out the shot and powder holes to the maximum possible with the bar. I then made aluminum bushings in various sizes to drop the desired loads. I have loaded hundreds if not thousands of shot shells with no problems.  As for static electricity, it has been proven that there is not enough heat in a spark to ignite black powder.

Forgot, you can load brass shells also.

Lucky
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Offline Marshall Matt Dillon

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2021, 04:16:09 PM »

Plastic wads give me the "Over-Powder" the "Cushion" and the "Shot Cup" all in one.  Keeps loading All Brass Hulls really really simple and fast.

Is it SPRING YET!!!

Stay Safe

Do you use 10 ga plastic wads?

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2021, 09:14:57 AM »

 :)  Marshal Dillon   ;)

Yes . . er . .  No.  I was using Ballistic Products 1044 10Ga wads.  they worked a real treat, except, had to cut the cup petals back for a 1 ounce pay load.  Not difficult but some annoying.  So I switched to BP Spitfire 12Ga wads that have a 1 ounce shot cup to start with.  I have always dropped the plastic wad in on top of the powder charge.

Yes, I do get some snake skin but it cleans out so easily I don't worry about it.

Stay Safe Out There

Offline Marshall Matt Dillon

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2021, 01:22:27 PM »
:)  Marshal Dillon   ;)

So I switched to BP Spitfire 12Ga wads that have a 1 ounce shot cup to start with.  I have always dropped the plastic wad in on top of the powder charge.

Stay Safe Out There

When i do that, the wads are smaller then the inside of my brass case, letting the powder flow up around the wad. Do you put over powder card in before the wad?

Offline wildman1

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Re: 12ga Brass
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2021, 07:57:36 AM »
PM sent regarding 12 ga brass shells.
wM1
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