Picture of a Volcanic.. the daddy of them all.

[Big Hext]

I've never seen a picture of one before.
Amazing bit of history.

[Dai.S.Loe]

I've never seen a picture of one before.
Amazing bit of history.

I hate to dissapoint you Big Hext but the Volcanic rifle is the son of the "daddy of them all"

They are amazing rifles but the action was originally for a pistol designed by Messrs Smith and Wesson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Smith-et-Wesson-Volcanic-1854-1855-cal-31-p1030158.jpg

Check out this picture

Dai.

[Big Hext]

I ain't disappointed, but if you think that scrunched up lever action pistols looks like the rifle.. well, I reckon the southern hemisphere is playing tricks on yer eyes. 

The Volcanic rifle looks like the 1860.. I rest my case.

[Qball]

Now now, boys no fighting.
Take a look at thees insted
http://www.ingenting.f2s.com/western/repeters.htm

[deucedaddyj]

The Smith and Wesson patent was sold to Volcanic, or New Haven Arms I believe. That company went on to be Winchester down the road. Correct me if I'm wrong about that. It's coming from memory.

Actually the hand-held version was made before the rifle versions were. The only difference between the S&W's and the actual Volcanic's were the calibers, barrel lengths, and the barrel shape. The S&W's were octagon all the way down, where as the Volcanic was Octagon with a round end. I might have that backwards because I don't have my reference material on me, but I'm pretty sure that's how it went.

They're my favorite gun of the Old West. Too bad they cost about $10,000 or so!

[Qball]

All of thees Volcanic has oktagon barrels.
http://www.ingenting.f2s.com/western/volcanics.htm

[Qball]

Got some interesting reading here.
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/history.htm

[Dai.S.Loe]

Now now, boys no fighting.
Take a look at thees insted
http://www.ingenting.f2s.com/western/repeters.htm

We arent fighting. Well I hope not. More like a constructive arguement on the merits and history of lever actioned guns.

Big Hext I agree it is one dam fine looking firearm that would be the centre piece of any collection.

I can only dream of ever seeing one let alone actually geting to touch one. Owning one would be akin to winning the lottery.

I am a big Smith and Wesson enthusiast. I would love to be able to use a pair of S&W .44 Russian Double Action pistols in a match. Wouldnt care if I had to use them single action. When in the UK I saw a pair of these for sale and came real close to getting them.

[Chance]

When in the UK I saw a pair of these for sale and came real close to getting them.

You nearly bought them over here? The Russians that are for sale in the UK have come from your side of the Water and are sold over here at a premium. Reason is that this calibre is now classed as 'obsolete' and therefore not subject to our strict licensing laws. You will find a much better choice and better prices at home, just like our dealers do.

[Dai.S.Loe]

You nearly bought them over here? The Russians that are for sale in the UK have come from your side of the Water and are sold over here at a premium. Reason is that this calibre is now classed as 'obsolete' and therefore not subject to our strict licensing laws. You will find a much better choice and better prices at home, just like our dealers do.

Very little down here in NZ.

In the US maybe.

Dai

[Big Hext]

Heck, this is the nicest fight I've ever been in.

I am not a huge fan of the Volcanic, except that it began the way to the Henry, the 66 and the 73.  The ammo was bad and it's funny that Smith and Wesson had the answer, but chose not to pursue the cartridge type of ammo.

Adios,

[deucedaddyj]

I love 'em. I saw a pocket model at cabelas about a half a year back. It was surprisingly not to expensive. Still way out of my league though. The only problem is, you definetly couldn't shoo gunfighter style with them.

[Chance]

Very little down here in NZ.

In the US maybe.

Dai

Sorry, Dai
I did not look to see your location. S&W prices here usually work out at £1 to $1- that is if it costs $100 in the US it will be £100 in the UK. Some of the prices they are asking for Russians are very optomistic!

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Dai.S.Loe said;

I would love to be able to use a pair of S&W .44 Russian Double Action pistols in a match. Wouldnt care if I had to use them single action.

Dai,
you can use them in NCOWS....

Bill

[Dai.S.Loe]

Dai.S.Loe said;Dai,
you can use them in NCOWS....

Bill

There is no NCOWS presence down here yet. Working on a few BP shooters who have shown an interest in the ideals of the Assoc.

Dai

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Boys

I got to handle a real Volcanic on Saturday. I was attending the gun show in Springfield, Mass, and a large auction house had a display table. They had a whole bunch of highly ornamented fancy antique rifles and pistols, but what caught my eye was a real brass framed Volcanic carbine. They were nice enough to allow me to handle it, even though I plainly could not afford it.

The thing that struck me about the Volcanic, and it isn't obvious from the pictures, is how small it was. The frame, although very similar in shape and design to the Henry, '66, and '73, is much smaller in scale. This one must have been a 38, I'm sorry to say I did not notice the caliber. The cartridge elevator was tiny. Just a little silver colored square in its well in the receiver. This particular one was missing the magazine spring and follower. There was a wire tie on the action, and I wasn't about to ask them to remove it, they were nice enough just to allow me to handle it.

It sure was a treat getting to hold such a historic rifle.

[Big Hext]

DJ,

The ammo used by the Henry was an early "rocket bullet" type.  Even though Wesson (or it might of been Smith.. don't have the book in front of me.) had invented the brass cartridge, it wasn't used in this rifle.  The propellant was housed inside the base of the bullet.. needless to say, it was anemic, at best.

They are very, very cool old guns.
Adios,

[Driftwood Johnson]

Big Hext

Yes, I am aware of the Rocket Ball ammo. The idea existed slightly before the Volcanic, it was originally developed by Hunt or Jennings, I can't remember which right now. They worked on designs that were the predecessors to the Volcanic. So one reason the elevator is so tiny on the Volcanic is because it was basically lifting up just a 38 cal bullet with no case at all.

Smith and Wesson did not invent the brass cartirdge, a Frenchman by the name of Flobert came up with the idea of the rimfire cartridge about 1845. The originals were copper cased, not brass. Smith and Wesson were able to put it the concept to good use once they got control of the Rollin White patent for bored through cylinders and started producing revolvers around 1857. But they missed the boat by not incorporating the idea in the Volcanic mechanism a couple of years earlier. It was Henry, probably under the direction of Winchester, that developed the concept of a copper cased rimfire cartridge for a lever action firearm. The first cartridge Henry came up with was 38 caliber, but Winchester had the marketing savvy to realize it was too small. He told Henry to go back to the drawing board and he came up with the 44 cal round instead.

[Macon McLeod Osmoke]

How can you tell the difference between a Volcanic rifle and the 1860 Henry? 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Like I learned after handling it, the Volcanic is much smaller. There are subtle differences in the geometry of the receiver, hammer, and lever, but put both of them on a table together, and the Volcanic looks like a miniature Henry. Or to be more correct, the Henry since it came later, looks like an overgrown Volcanic. The Volcanic frame is just big enough to handle the 38 cal rocket ball ammo it used. When Henry developed the rimfire round for his rifle, the round was 44 cal, not 38, and in addition, it had a case, which the rocket ball ammo did not. So the action had to be slightly longer to manipulate the slightly longer round and slightly wider to handle the larger caliber. Not to different than looking at a K frame S&W, designed around the 38 Special cartridge, and an N frame S&W, designed around the 44 Special cartridge.

When I picked up the little Volcanic, it was like picking up a little 22 rimfire version of the much bigger Henry. This one was a carbine. I didn't have a tape with me, but I think the barrel looked like it was around 20" long. I think most Henrys came with a 24" barrel.

Of course it you see a lever action pistol, with a tube magazine under the barrel, that is definetly a Volcanic, as no pistol versions of the Henry were made.

Here is a quick snapshot I made of a couple of Henrys and Volcanics off of the Web. They are not all scaled the same, the Henrys aren't really that much bigger. But you might get an idea of some of the differences in the details of the two guns from this picture: