BP 45c loads for Marlin '94 Q's

Eyesa Horg · December 10, 2019, 01:20:15 PM

I've got a match coming up this spring that will require BP loads. As normally a smokeless shooter I'd like to start out my BP experience with what I have on hand. I have some 200gr. Desparado Cowboy bullets that they say are BP compatible. I'm thinking that won't be enough lube in the rifle. Can I put a 1/8" lubed wad under them and get decent results? How much powder should I use to keep recoil reasonable with a bad shoulder? I've heard some say about 1.2 CC and some filler. If this gets me addicted to BP, I will go to Big Lube I guess! How often do you figure I'll need to swab the barrel and what do you do to keep all the fouling from falling into the action when swabbed at the gun cart?

Much Obliged,
EH

wildman1 · December 11, 2019, 07:12:15 AM

Insert an EMPTY case into the chamber when you run patches thru your rifle and you will keep the fouling out of the action. Just make sure all the patches are out of the cases before you clean them.
wM1

Bunk Stagnerg · December 11, 2019, 09:37:36 AM

I run a wet Bore Snake breech to muzzle and pull all the loose fouling out that way.
That usually gets most of the residue out. Then follow with a couple of wet then dry patches muzzle to breech, oil and done.
Bunk

Eyesa Horg · December 11, 2019, 12:23:55 PM

Excellent ideas on the cleaning part-- Thanks

Isom · December 11, 2019, 02:44:49 PM

+1 for Bunk. But when I go from muzzle to breech, I use a brass muzzle protector and turn the rifle upside down and the junk and patches fall out the bottom (top).
YMMV,
Isom

Coffinmaker · December 11, 2019, 05:09:02 PM

My Turn!!! My Turn!!! Call Me!!!! Call Me!!!! I wanna play TOO

PLUS ONE to ALL of the ABOVE. Except, I have an additional. Take a few minutes or an hour or so out of your miserable COLD Winter and ANEAL some cases. The Straight Wall 45 Colt cases are too heavy to expand and seal the chamber well. Blow-By will ensue. Blow-By inna Fish (Marlin) or a '92 with straight back Breach Block can be miserable. Annealing can and will soften the brass sufficiently to allow the case to expand and seal the chamber EVEN WITH LIGHT LOADS. If you want a really soft shooting load, I would suggest 15 to 20Gr 2F anything, topped with Cream-0-Wheat and 160Gr, 180Gr or 200Gr bullets. Unless your shooting APP, your going to need enough lube to last all the way through the barrel. Smokeless lube bullets won't carry enough lube. I'm lazy, I don't like mess and goo so I don't mess with greasy cookies. With real Black, I shoot Big Lube Bullets. for your upcoming match, I suggest a small order of Big Lube bullets from Springfield Slim.

For bore swabbing, chambering a fired case (mentioned above) to keep the crud out of the action is a grand idea. With annealed cases and Big Lube (shameless plug for Big Lubes) bullets you may well ONLY have to swab the barrel and wipe the rifle down.

Try some APP. You'll like it. Once you begin with BP ...... RESISTANCE IS FUTILE YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED

Eyesa Horg · December 12, 2019, 09:44:37 AM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on December 11, 2019, 05:09:02 PM
My Turn!!! My Turn!!! Call Me!!!! Call Me!!!! I wanna play TOO

PLUS ONE to ALL of the ABOVE. Except, I have an additional. Take a few minutes or an hour or so out of your miserable COLD Winter and ANEAL some cases. The Straight Wall 45 Colt cases are too heavy to expand and seal the chamber well. Blow-By will ensue. Blow-By inna Fish (Marlin) or a '92 with straight back Breach Block can be miserable. Annealing can and will soften the brass sufficiently to allow the case to expand and seal the chamber EVEN WITH LIGHT LOADS. If you want a really soft shooting load, I would suggest 15 to 20Gr 2F anything, topped with Cream-0-Wheat and 160Gr, 180Gr or 200Gr bullets. Unless your shooting APP, your going to need enough lube to last all the way through the barrel. Smokeless lube bullets won't carry enough lube. I'm lazy, I don't like mess and goo so I don't mess with greasy cookies. With real Black, I shoot Big Lube Bullets. for your upcoming match, I suggest a small order of Big Lube bullets from Springfield Slim.

For bore swabbing, chambering a fired case (mentioned above) to keep the crud out of the action is a grand idea. With annealed cases and Big Lube (shameless plug for Big Lubes) bullets you may well ONLY have to swab the barrel and wipe the rifle down.

Try some APP. You'll like it. Once you begin with BP ...... RESISTANCE IS FUTILE YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED

Thanks for the advice Coffinmaker, Do you have info on contacting Springfield Slim?, The regular 200 gr. bullets I have according to Desparado Cowboy have BP compatible lube---that's why I was thinking to add a lubed "wonder wad" under it for more lube in the rifle. I shoot C45S in my revolvers and think they will be OK.

Coffinmaker · December 12, 2019, 11:38:01 AM

Yep. you can reach Mark Wythe at "MyWytheLeatherWorks" or something really similar. I don't know how to post a Hyperlink.

Your C45S cases will work just fine as frogs fur in your revolvers. However, whether Revolver or Rifle yule (tis the season) you're gonna need some BP Lube. "More" bp lube. Most smokeless bullets don't carry enough lube. Also, "BP Compatible" does NOT mean it works well with BP. It just means it may not turn to HARD TAR. Big difference.

NOW: I'm lazy (no, really I am) and I don't like hassle. I don't like greasy messy. None of that stuff. So I take the easy way out. I shoot APP. APP requires NO LUBE. None at all. No lube inna revolver, no lube inn Rifle. NO LUBE. Cleans up just fine with plain WATER. No harsh chemicals, no wonder moistures. Water. I prefer it to be Hot Water out of the Tap. Datzit.

There are other BP substitutes but I don't like them and some are actually harmful to your gunz (Pyrodex). If you have questions .... ask away!! I gotz answers

Eyesa Horg · December 16, 2019, 11:28:02 AM

Thanks Coffinmaker, I'll look into the big lube bullets. I have some Black MZ I can use also. Around here if you can find it, APP is $30 a bottle. Ordering it for $9.99 is still expensive after you get done with the Hazmat. Learned many years ago about Pyrodex, I'm sure I could hear the gun start rusting within minutes of pulling the trigger!

wildman1 · December 17, 2019, 07:48:46 AM

MZ is the same as APP.
wM1

Coffinmaker · December 17, 2019, 12:47:14 PM

I gotta Research. Yes. If you read the fine print, Black MZ is included in the Patent information for APP and as far as I know, same Mfgr??? However:

For the last year or so, I have been hearing Black MZ has been or is being discontinued. I cannot personally confirm nor deny. I need to ask around at the top of the food chain. Watch this space.

For Eyes: Yep. WM 1 is entirely correct. Black MZ is almost factly same same APP. Same loading, same clean up, same NO LUBE. Not necessary to compress. Still ...... Leave NO Airspace. Load or use filler to the base of the projectile.

Just to help a little more. BP is Cumulative. The amount of fouling increases with every shot. Without swabbing, a 10 or 12 stage match can get really ugly. APP and Black MZ are singular. Each round you fire removes the fouling from the previous shot. If however, you are shooting with a rail road tunnel for a chamber, and you are not annealing, the chamber may well foul out.

Eyesa Horg · December 17, 2019, 04:00:01 PM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on December 17, 2019, 12:47:14 PM
I gotta Research. Yes. If you read the fine print, Black MZ is included in the Patent information for APP and as far as I know, same Mfgr??? However:

For the last year or so, I have been hearing Black MZ has been or is being discontinued. I cannot personally confirm nor deny. I need to ask around at the top of the food chain. Watch this space.

For Eyes: Yep. WM 1 is entirely correct. Black MZ is almost factly same same APP. Same loading, same clean up, same NO LUBE. Not necessary to compress. Still ...... Leave NO Airspace. Load or use filler to the base of the projectile.

Just to help a little more. BP is Cumulative. The amount of fouling increases with every shot. Without swabbing, a 10 or 12 stage match can get really ugly. APP and Black MZ are singular. Each round you fire removes the fouling from the previous shot. If however, you are shooting with a rail road tunnel for a chamber, and you are not annealing, the chamber may well foul out.

Thanks that's good info to know.

Driftwood Johnson · December 23, 2019, 01:17:40 AM

Howdy

See my reply over on the SASS Wire.

Also, DO NOT place a grease cookie between bullet and powder, or between bullet and filler. You will wonder why your accuracy went to heck.

Years ago I discovered that doing so the grease cookie glued the wad to the base of the bullet and they wobbled like lopsided darts on their way to the target. If you want to add grease inside the cartridge, put a card wad between the bullet and the grease cookie, then another card between grease cookie and the powder or fillet. Way too much work. I started using Big Lube bullets for all my BP loads and have never used anything else since. If you want a 200 grain bullet, order the J/P 200. Designed by yours truly. No, I do not get any kickbacks, it is just a really good bullet if I do say so myself.

http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/BigLube.html