1885 Hi-wall ???

[Slamfire]

 A friend came by w/ a new ( 2005 + - ) 1855 HW ,,said hadn't shot it in awhile,, ( 10 rds.) said it needed shoot'n I'm a lever man,,don't know nut'n bout no HW's,,said the rds. are loaded w/TB ( didn't say how much ) bullet weight ? It is a Browning in original box w/ Vernier sight ,,has one of those levels on the front sight (??) and has a 1/2 doz. replaceable front sights (??). IF,,i sound like a "rube" about this HW,,I am,,hope i'm in the right place to ask for some advice on shoot'n and loading . He said bore is .408 dia. ,I have a mould for a .410 dia.( say's "sharps" on Lyman bow ),,. I didn't ask the value of this piece,,as is,,would like to have some ideal,,yep! looking up stuff on the video's,,but people "here" shoot these in competition sooo where do I start.


 coffee's ready,,,,Hootmix.

[Coffinmaker]

For most of your questions, I am a Dry Hole.  I did have a Hi-Wall some years ago, however, it was a 38-55 that drove tacks.  So .. I am of not much help.  EXCEPT:

Somebody else loaded that ammunition and doesn't know/didn't record, the load.  My first step would be to pull the bullets and dump the powder in the garden and start from scratch.  I always question ammunition when someone goes "Duh."

I wish mine had been a Browning.  Those I have had opportunity to play with have been absolutely marvelous.

[Slamfire]

 Mr. Maker, Like you !,I really had (have ) no intuition of shooting this feller's ammo...I do reload .." by the Book". MY 49th. Lyman does not show a load for a 40/65 ( I forgot to post the cal in my origl. post ) w/ Trail Boss ,,if it's ok to use TB I know I can find the answer here. I do use TB in my 44/40's & 40/60 win. Thank you for your reply ,,,this rifle is a beauty .

 coffee's ready,,,,Hootmix.

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[Kent Shootwell]

If it is an 1855 high wall you have a rare gun!😃  I agree the the ammo would be suspect and would pull at least one apart to inspect. TB is easy to recognize sence you use it and would give you a chance to weigh it and the bullet. Data can be got from better sources then me. Your .410 mold is good but what weight? You will soon learn to love them fancy sights.

[Lucky R. K.]

I believe Browning made the black powder version of the 1885 Hi-Wall in 40-65, 45-70 and a few Creedmoor style in 45-90.
Lucky

[Slamfire]

 YEP !! been out fondling the rifle,,did some measuring his loaded rnds.

  Unfired rds. w/ 350grn. .408 dia. "Bushwacker bullets"@ 2.695 OAL.
  ""          '       "     ""       ""          "            ""   ""       @ .430 OD
   Fired case (R P 45/70 )  length @2.135-136
  Lyman 49th. edg. " trim case to  2.105 ??
  Cast bullet sized to .410 dia.

  I have been looking & reading " a lot " not sure what's going on.
 Pushed a rod down the bore w/ the action closed ( FP  back ),,marked rod @ end of barrel .
 Put a bullet ( 350grn. ) in the breach w/ a dowel until I felt it touch the lande's,,marked the rod = 2.738 sub'd OAL 2.695= .043 diff.
 so I think that means the loaded rd. is .043 off the lande's ?? So Good - Bad - Just right ??

    Check me out here !!!

  coffee's ready,,,,Hootmix


   
                                                                                                 

[Ranch 13]

That rifle will do it's best work with a 400-410 gr bullet seated to , or just off the lands. The Lyman Snover bullet is never a bad choice, cast from 20-1 or 16-1.
 If you don't load black powder in it, you'll want to look up data for 5744.

[Slamfire]

Luck's right it is a Browning BP version . Don't have any 5744 do have 2 Lyman moulds ,,1- 385grn. PT &  1- 400grn. rfn.  Have some H4198 .
 Was wondering why his brass ( fired case ) is 2.135 and not trimmed to 2.105 like the Lyman book say's ? My friend said he only shot out to 50yds ( 10-12 rd's ),,I surely don't don't want to screw his gun up,,but @ least 100 + yd's.  to start with . If I decide to use BP do I need to use some kind of "wad's "over the powder??
  Will pull a round apart and see what's in there. Oh yea,,the rounds are crimped in the crimp grove on the 350grn. bullets .

  coffee's ready,,,,Hootmix. 

[Ranch 13]

Those Browning chambers are a bit long from the original 40-65 chamber. A lot of folks simply run 45-70 brass into the 40-65 sizer  trim to length,load and shoot.
 4198 will work. If that 385 gr bullet is the real pointy one, it will deal you fits past 200 yards if there's any wind. That 400 gr bullet will do alright.
 Yes if you load with black you'll want to use a .030 fiber wad under the bullet.

[Slamfire]

I'm back,,went and pulled a bullet I like to have never got it out ,,  man " tight ",, weighted the powder ( TB ) 12.2 grs. My friend gave me the dies that he used,, said they are already set ,,for the 350grn. bullets . I did not mean to miss lead ya'll about my friend's loading abilities ,,he does load and shoot,,I'm just covering my backside . Soo, anyone here use or used TB in their 40/65's,,my 40/60 uses 14.1 TB w/200-210gr. rfn bullet. 

 Not going to mould any bullets ( 400grn. ) until " we " decide .

 Ranch 13,, yeh'a pointy 385gr. will probable go w/ the other 400gr. I'm thinking he left the brass longer so he could crimp in the crimp grove and not leave much lead sticking out of the case,,,maybe ?

[Ranch 13]

Hard telling, I would hate to take a guess what somebody who loaded trail boss in that rifle was up to.
 I would tell you tho that crimp is generally and accuracy killer in these single shot rifles. Those Browning chambers are long, and that may just be what the brass stretched to using TB which gives some pretty high pressures for the dismal velocity it provides.

[Slamfire]

 Ranch 13 I can see this is going to be a whole new learning experience ,,didn't think the rd. needed to be that tight but I'm new to game ,,will keep asking & looking ,,reading .

 coffee's ready,,,,Hootmix.

[Ranch 13]

 Those Brownings are really good shooting rifles when they're fed a good diet.
 Looking forward to hearing how you fare with it.

[Trailrider]

If you are going to use Black Powder, fill the case so that there is about 1/16" compression.  DO NOT allow any empty air space between the base of the bullet and the powder. For some of the BP substitutes, I bow to those who shoot those powders.

IMHO, Trail Boss is a bit fast for the .40-65-395/400.  Although I haven't had a chance to try loads in my Navy Arms HiWall in .40-65, just looking at loads in the Lyman #49 manual, I'd try Varget.  I don't know what rate of twist Browning is putting in the rifling of the modern HiWall's in that cartridge, but, presumably they are going with a fast enough twist to stabilize the heavier bullets.  The M1886 Winchesters in .40-65 WCF used a slower twist intended for bullets around 260 gr.

[Slamfire]

 YEP ! " I'm Back",,,read'n-read'n and more reading,,what's the diff between 1886 win. load's and the " Hi-Wall's ".  Using 400 grn+ - cast bullets  do we crimp or no crimp ,,what is the OAL for Hi-Wall cases vs. 1886 ?? COW show's a 300 gr. for both ( ?? ) max,,.

 This Hi-Wall must have a deep chamber,,some of the empty brass is 2.135,,Book says trim to 2.105,,Texmac wrote " 2.095 ",, there don't seem to be a set standard or I missed something.

 I happen to like the .40 cal's and think i'm gon't like this H/W,,when y'a'll get me lined out so hang with me.

  coffee's ready,,,, Hootmix .

[Ranch 13]

The  chamber length on the Browning bpcr is 2.125 , those cases of yours that are 2.135 have probably stretched during firing, unless someone was digging around in that chamber with a throating reamer or such.
 The 40-65 RL that started the 40-65 bpcr craze was the result of Ron Long simply running 45-70 brass in a 40-65 winchester sizing die, and cutting a reamer to fit the untrimmed brass.
 Might be a good thing to do a chamber cast on that rifle and see just what you are dealing with.
 Using no crimp , just neck tension will result in the best accuracy in that rifle. One of the 40-65's I had liked the bullets set hard into the rifling, the other two like the bullets driving band just off the lands.

[Slamfire]

Hey Ranch,,glad y'a showed up. Just got off the phone w/ the owner of the H/W,,( I ask ) turns out he resized some 45/70  brass to 40/65,,," no - he didn't think about trimming it to length ". I ASK,, yes  would like to shoot 400grn. bullets also.

 His brass is R&P,,i have new Starline 45/70,,. He ordered the rifle new,,back when they first came out been in the safe after being shot 10-12 rds.

 I'll see if anyone around here has some 5744,,if not I have TB & H4198 . Turns out the 400gr. Lyman mould I " found "is as round as a banana  ,,I know some people can make a crowbar use oil,,,but how do you  get a mould shaped like a " Almond'.

 I'll trim some brass ,,.   coffee's ready,,,, Hootmix.

[Ranch 13]

 Your 4198 will work fine. Check on the Hogdon's web data. Also the Lyman 48 has 4198 data. I looked at some old load notes I had, and we did shoot some 4198.  Altho, 64 gr. of OE 2f... just sayin...
 You can get the Lyman Snover bullet, or you can go with Saeco 740, or the RCBS CSA 400 bullet have all shot well. I also like the .395 gr creed moor bullet from Buffalo Arms.
 Cheycast sells some darn good snover bullets, also Montana Bullet works has a good selection of 40 caliber bullets if you want to try some different nose profiles before you buy a mould.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I'm glad to see that the ammo you inherited was made up in R-P .45-70 cases. I found that it was the only brand in my stash that was narrow enough at the web to fit the Browning .40-65 chamber. I have only used BP in mine.

P.S: if you have to convert other brass to .40-65, do just ONE then try it in the chamber before going further. As well, I found differing brands of .45-70 have wildly differing weights. Weight of case affects case capacity.

[Trailrider]

When I first started making brass for a .40-65WCF M1886, from .45-70 brass, I found I had to swage the head just forward of the rim in order to get them to chamber. I happened to have a sizing die for a .40-82.  After forming the .45-70 brass to .40-65 using the regular RCBS forming and then the sizing die, I remove the formed shell from the .40-65 sizing die, manually placed the shell in the .40-82 sizer die, placed the die and the brass in a bench vice (lubing the brass clear down to the front of the rim), tightened the vice until the brass had been forced completely in the die, up to the rim. I used a bolt to drive the case back out of  the sizing die. Voila! Case swaged down ahead of the rim!  You only need to do this once.  After that, the brass should easily chamber.