"Typical" Buffalo Rifle?

[Coal Creek Griff]

I'm still very much in the planning stage, so please don't spend a great deal of time with your answers—I'd feel bad if someone devoted a lot of time when I'm a long way away from this purchase.

I'm starting to save for a Sharps rifle.  This may be several years away, but I'm trying to think through the caliber and configuration I'd like.  I don't plan to compete with this gun.  This gun would be just for my own enjoyment.  I'd like to have what would have been a "typical" buffalo gun of the era.  I realize that "typical" may be hard to nail down since there were so many different types, but I've pretty much settled on an 1874 Sharps.

Imagine that you were called on to be a buffalo hunter re-enactor.  For your rifle, you'd want to avoid some of the cartridges that were introduced after the buffalo hunting period, etc.  You might not choose a rifle configuration that was mainly designed for and used in shooting competitions, even though such guns probably made their way onto the plains.  You would probably avoid a gun that was too expensive, with lots of silver or fancy wood, etc.  You would want to choose the type of gun the average hunter might have chosen—nothing special.  That's the gun I'm after.

As far as caliber, I'm drawn to the larger (.45 plus) bore, although I'm flexible on that if history dictates it.  I reload and cast, so I don't need to be able to pick up a box at the local Wal-Mart either.  I'm kind of drawn to the .50-90 caliber because of its legendary status, but I'd like opinions.  I know that .45-70 is very popular these days and I already cast and load that caliber, but it's so...I don't know, ordinary.  If that was "typical", though I'd be willing to go that route.

This is all speculative at this point, but I'd love to hear from the knowledgeable folks here.  I also haven't spent much time reading the books on the topic yet, since most of them are a significant investment on their own.  I'll get there, though.  If there are some books that I should look for first, I'd love to hear about them.  (Since I'm so early in the process, perhaps we can avoid the import vs. domestic argument that has been so thoroughly covered elsewhere.)

Thanks, ladies and gents.

CC Griff

[Ranch 13]

Get ahold of the Encyclopedia of Buffalo Hunters , there's a wealth of information in those.
Several cartridges were popular, 50-90,44-77,44-90, and even the 40 bottle necks had their following. The big 45 caliber Sharps came at the end, but were highly sought after when they did come out. So much so that many a 50 and 44 were rebarrelled.

[Forty Rod]

If your heart is set on a Sharps I have no opinion, but if you want a truly elegant single shot rifle noted for accuracy, look at a Ballard No. 5 "Pacific" in whatever caliber you choose.

[Willie Dixon]

From what I've read the big 50 was the most popular on the frontier for dropping the buffalo.  In Billy Dixon's book he says nothing but praise for it.

Personally, I thoroughly enjoy the 45 calibers.  I own two, both italian replicas, and of course I'm dreaming about a Shiloh or two.  My pedersoli's are great guns though, they shoot better than me, which actually says alot if you knew my background.

I'd personally start off with the 45-70.  The cases are the cheapest of the bunch, and it doesn't carry a ton of powder.  It's a very economical big-bore.  It's also very modifiable as far as powder goes.  Smokeless works, any range of BP works.  Plus my big girl goes out to 500 yards no problem, in 45-70.  It's when you go out way beyond that the bigger powder numbers and bigger grain bullets come in handy.  But, you always got to start slow.

I'd actually start off with a .22.  Now, hear me out.  I don't know your rifle background.  A .22 will teach you all the fundamentals you will need for the big buff rifles.  I've shot mine with great groupings out to 250 yards.  Plus it still has the feel of the buff rifles, and at only $300!  It's a savage stevens takedown.  Basically a baby version of the winchester high-wall.

Personally I love all the single-shot rifles of that period.  But my favorite is the old work horses in the Winchester and Sharps.  But that, again is totally personal preference.  I'd go 45-70 though, if you've already shot good groupings past 100 yards, it'll grow with you. 

[Fox Creek Kid]

Shiloh 16 lb. 50-90.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Interesting ...

Mike Venturino's book 'Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the old West' was suggested to me, and he repeatedly makes the remark that a buffalo rifle could be anything over .50 Cal  and 70 grains powder ... the .45-70 being kinda an exception to the rule. He also makes the point that although the Shapes was thought of as the quintessential 'buffler gun' that many buffs were downed with cap and ball and flintlocks ... and that the 1885 Brownings, both hi-wall and lo-wall, cannot be thought of as buffalo guns cause the buffalo were not really around in large numbers by 1885.

But it has to be said that a lot of buffalo were downed by single shot muzzleloaders and Remington Rolling Blocks ....

[JimBob]

Some years ago an archeological dig was conducted at the Adobe Walls site.Circa 1874 the following calibers among others were found as complete,fired,or unloaded casings:
.44-77
.44-90
.45 U.S.Gov't.
.50-70 U.S.Gov't.
.50-90

It's a pretty good list of common calibers for the hunters in that area in 1874.

Some existing pictures of known hunters show them with Sharps and Remington military type rifles.Other pictures of surviving rifles are much like the heavy barreled plain rifle like Fox Creek Kid's picture.I've shot a .50-90,it takes a heavy rifle like that or the recoil is brutal.

[Marshal Deadwood]

In the classic 'professional' sense, FCK's rifle would be the way to go.  But 16lbs IS heavy. Heck my heavy barrel Bridgeport weights in at 12 something.........and it is not a comfortable 'walk around with' rifle.

They use Sharps military rifles. I have a 45-70 '74 military rifle and love it. Call me insane, but I want the same 'military rifle in 50-70gvt. 

Is there a rule saying its a sin having two guns so much alike ? 

MD

[Willie Dixon]

JimBob,

I was at Adobe Walls spring 2010, and because of my major in school, and luck through family I was able to meet with, drink coffee and check out actual artifacts with the West Texas Plains Museum Archaeologist!  It was amazing.  I remember seeing some of those very cartridges.  He thought it was awesome that my uncle and I went all the way out there to see it.  When he saw my uncle, it was hillarious, he just said "yep, you're related all right."

Anyways, the big 50-90 is an epic gun.  But heavy, and bucks like a mule.  I personally have shot beautiful 8" groupings with my 45-70 at 500 yards, off-hand.  Basically I was saying if Griff wanted to purchase a gun that was fun to shoot today, with affordable casings, and could go out beyond the sticks, the 45-70 would be a great, and historically accurate choice.  

And Marshall, a military rifle in 50-70 isn't insane, it's wicked awesome!  I'm actually wishing and saving for an 1874 military with the full stock and 3-band from Shiloh.  I figure she's close enough to my Berdan 3-band, and could "pass" for an old Berdan that was converted to cartridge.  I'm also hoping the full stock helps with the kick!

[Fox Creek Kid]

...I'm also hoping the full stock helps with the kick!

It doesn't. The wood forearm weighs little. I have a Shiloh 50-70 Military Rifle as well & the recoil is more manageable than a 50-90 (obviously). 

[Pitspitr]

Bill Cody made his "name" with a M-1866 trapdoor in .50-70.
Sometime after 1873 the .45-70 became a popular round because of the availablity of military cartridges

[Coal Creek Griff]

Great info, gents.  I really appreciate the historical perspective. 

CC Griff

[JimBob]

The single best book I would recomend on the rifles would be Sharps Firearms by Frank Sellers.Chapter 20-On the Plains has lots of information on calibers and rifles shipped and used during the period.Calibers and type of rifle varied depending on the area.In generally speaking the most often used Sharps rifle specifically for buffalo hunting in the 1871-84 period was the Sporting Rifle,weighing over 12 pounds,with double set triggers.But as Sellers points out different areas and periods had different preferences but that type rifle would have been common over the entire era in most areas.

A little on cartridges:

The earliest chambering in .50 caliber was the .50 1 3/4 in.(.50-70) in the New Model 1869.The .50-90 was introduced mid 1872.After 1876 the .50 caliber chamberings were only special order and production of cartridges by the Sharps Co. itself was discontinued.The high water mark for the "Big Fifty"was pretty much the 1872-75 period.

Two old standard works on the buffalo hunting period are "The Buffalo Hunters" by Mari  Sandoz and "The Great Buffalo Hunt" by Wayne Gard.Your local library may have them or be able to get them on loan.Both are good reads on the period and people.

[Short Knife Johnson]

I would like to join the choir singing the praises of the mighty .45-70.  It's easy to get to shoot well, more than authentic (but you have to call it the .45- 2 1/10   ), and relatively readily available.  Pictured below is my Shiloh #1 Sporting model Heavy Barrel in .45-90.  I bought it third hand and love it to bits, but really wish It was a .45-70.  It is incredibly accurate (the photo was taken just after a very successful range session), but kind of expensive to feed and get brass for.  Short version is - keep it simple.





To get something more exotic like the .44-77, .50 calibres, and so on requires lots of money and loading experience.  I had to laugh once.  I was in Big Timber at the Shiloh Rifle plant.  A fellow from Kansas was there picking up an in-stock rifle chambered in .40-65.  He said to me "Well I had my heart set on a big .45-110 (which was in stock), but every time I got the ladies on the phone, they kept talking me down in calibre."  He was a total beginner and I told him it was for the best and he'll enjoy that .40-65 much more than a 110 that would kick the daylights out of him.  Best of luck to you.

[Kent Shootwell]

The Sharps# 3 sporting rifle is indeed what you need to look the part of a professional hunter. 50 X 2 1/2" is the cartridge for your stand out rifle and a #2 heavy barrel of 30 " long will hold the recoil down to a level most shooters can handle. Sliver blade front sight and sporting rear barrel sight is what you see in most period photos. Butt plate could be the rifle type or a steel shotgun which is a bit better for prone shooting. If you order a Shiloh get the bone case color as the way they do the standard case looks out of place. My 50 calibre brass has lasted for may reloads so cost isn't too bad and good groups aren't hard to come by.
Pretty rifle Short Knife Johnson, much like my 45 X 2.1" sights and all!

[Willie Dixon]

Much like Shortknife has said, I own a 45-70 bought and paid in Prescott at a small gun store that has all sorts of fun things. Bought my 45-90 there as well.  Both need new stocks but the actions in them are really nice and I'm good with wood workin. I have fired the 45-70 though and I've got to admit, nothing better than the "bang for buck" for that one.

Doing the math on the 45-90, it's amazing to see that just for 20 grains more of powder you pay twice as much almost. About 80 cents versus 45 for the Mil-spec loading (45-70-405) of the 45-70.  

It's mainly in the brass too, but I sure love those babies that are as big as my finger when they're seated with the 555gr pp bullet! 

There is something about a Shiloh though, man oh man, if I ever get my hands on one of those

[Fox Creek Kid]

The 45-70 was not as rapidly adopted as many think by commercial makers as repeaters ruled the roost apart from serious hunters. The Buffalo hunters preferred something a little heavier at this time and Sharps NEVER loaded the 45 2.1 with a PP bullet larger than 420 gr. The military used the 405 gr. grease groove until the early 1880's when they switched over to a 500 gr. bullet. The first repeater utilizing the 45-70 was the 1881 Marlin. I think it was more of a gradual changeover to the 45-70 personally even though 45-70 was the most popular chambering in the Bridgeport era of Sharps production (1876 on) to be frank neither Sharps nor Remington sold many SPORTING rifles and both companies went teats up in the 1880's.

[Pitspitr]

The 45-70 was not as rapidly adopted as many think by commercial makers as repeaters ruled the roost apart from serious hunters. The Buffalo hunters preferred something a little heavier at this time and Sharps NEVER loaded the 45 2.1 with a PP bullet larger than 420 gr. The military used the 405 gr. grease groove until the early 1880's when they switched over to a 500 gr. bullet. The first repeater utilizing the 45-70 was the 1881 Marlin. I think it was more of a gradual changeover to the 45-70 personally even though 45-70 was the most popular chambering in the Bridgeport era of Sharps production (1876 on) to be frank neither Sharps nor Remington sold many SPORTING rifles and both companies went teats up in the 1880's.

Yep, that's why I said:

Sometime after 1873 the .45-70 became a popular round because of the availablity of military cartridges

The government was giving cartridges to the Buffalo runners. The thought being that if the buffalo went away they'd be better able to control the indians. A lot of these cartridges were disassembled and the components were used to reload for the chambering that the runners already had. But a lot of other runners went ahead and bought their rifles in .45-70 and saved the effort.

[Trailrider]

Yep, that's why I said: The government was giving cartridges to the Buffalo runners. The thought being that if the buffalo went away they'd be better able to control the indians. A lot of these cartridges were disassembled and the components were used to reload for the chambering that the runners already had. But a lot of other runners went ahead and bought their rifles in .45-70 and saved the effort.

The issuing of .45-70 Gov't ammo to citizen (civilian in today's parlance) buffalo hunters was the Army's method of destroying the Indian's "comessary" (sp?).  Today, we call for air strikes on enemy supply lines and manufacturing facilities. It's called "strategic interdiction".  From about 1874 (when the actual issue of M1873 Springfields got underway) until about 1885, government ammo used internally primed central fire gilding metal cases.  Commercial companies such as Union Metallic and Winchester and Western Cartridge were making externally primed brass cased ammo in .45-70.  But, where available, Army ammo would suffice providing the hunter didn't shoot too fast and get the chamber overheated to the point where the copper (gilding) cases jammed in the chamber.  It also came in handy where a citizen might find himself in a firefight along side troops, such as at the Rosebud Battle 17 June 1876!  There were also quite a few hunters who used rifles chambered for the .50-1-3/4" (.50-70 Gov't) cartridge, as prior to 1874,  there was a lot of that ammo around, and after the Army changed to the .45-70, they were only allowed 3 rounds per man per month for target practice, foraging, etc.  Sidney Barracks, NE, where Co's C, G and I of the 3rd Cav were stationed in that time period, had over 50,000 rounds of .50-70 on hand, and 5 Sharps carbines they were permitted to keep after being issued their Trapdoor Springfield carbines in early '74.  It appears they used the 5 carbines for target practice, foraging, and to arm their citizen Quartermaster Dept. employees that went to the field with the troops.

The .50-70 brass is obtainable today, but is more expensive and scarce than .45-70.  Personally, unless I were hunting buffalo for fun and profit, I'd stick with the .45-70.

[Drydock]

To quote Mike Venturino "Get your .45-70 FIRST!"  Economical, accurate, easy to load and powerful enough, it will teach you everything you need to know about BP cartridges, has great flexibility should you wish to shoot smokeless (Blasphemy though that be) and should you still feel the need for the more exotic, can be rechambered for a longer .45 or traded/sold for another caliber once you have mastered it.