Locking bolt notches

[wdbarbe]

I was talking to someone at the SASS Convention and they told me the locking bolt notches on a USFA were different than a Colt.  He said Colt notches were cut at an angle and USFA were not.
In other words, if you were to measure the depth of the bolt notch in relation to the outside diameter of the cylinder, Colt notches get deeper toward the back and the head of the bolt is tapered so as the bolt enters the notch, it falls deeper sooner and thus is less likely to skip.  He said on a USFA or Uberti, the notch is cut to a uniform depth and the top of the bolt is square so until the last bit is above the notch, the bolt can't drop in.
Does anyone know if this is true?  Has something to do with the way they cut the notches.
Any info would be appreciated.

[Wild Ben Raymond]

I was talking to someone at the SASS Convention and they told me the locking bolt notches on a USFA were different than a Colt.  He said Colt notches were cut at an angle and USFA were not.
In other words, if you were to measure the depth of the bolt notch in relation to the outside diameter of the cylinder, Colt notches get deeper toward the back and the head of the bolt is tapered so as the bolt enters the notch, it falls deeper sooner and thus is less likely to skip.  He said on a USFA or Uberti, the notch is cut to a uniform depth and the top of the bolt is square so until the last bit is above the notch, the bolt can't drop in.
Does anyone know if this is true?  Has something to do with the way they cut the notches.
Any info would be appreciated.

I have both, a pair of Colts and a pair of USFA's and what you discribed is about right in which the way the notches are cut. I have to say though, your idea on the bolt not dropping in untill the last bit is above the notch is false. The bolt actually drops into the lead cut which is at least about half as deep as the notch itself, so the bolt more or less slides in to the notch via the lead cut. Both systems work well as I have had no problems with the USFA's. WBR   

[wdbarbe]

It seemed to me that both systems should work, but not having a USFA to compare was why I posted here.  Obviously, the guy I was talking to is a die hard Colt guy.
Looking to purchase a couple of new guns, I was trying to justify the extra cost of a Colt over anyone else.  Besides the name, can you see any real advantage to a Colt over USFA?  Feel free to send me a private e-mail if you are more comfortable.
Thanks,
Bill

[RRio]

top of the bolt is square so until the last bit is above the notch, the bolt can't drop in.

Not true. Period. Top of the bolts in all (Colt, USFA, Uberti Pietta - ALL) have a slight taper to them.

Obviously, the guy I was talking to is a die hard Colt guy.

Or one of those self proclaimed "experts" I was talking about.

[Wild Ben Raymond]

It seemed to me that both systems should work, but not having a USFA to compare was why I posted here.  Obviously, the guy I was talking to is a die hard Colt guy.
Looking to purchase a couple of new guns, I was trying to justify the extra cost of a Colt over anyone else.  Besides the name, can you see any real advantage to a Colt over USFA?  Feel free to send me a private e-mail if you are more comfortable.
Thanks,
Bill

I have not checked the price's lately on either Colts or USFA's but when I bought mine the differance in price was $300.00 more per Colt. All things being equal, as both sets are blued & case colored hardened frames. The reason's IMHO to buy a Colt is the name, history and resale value will remain higher. Otherwise, if you are just looking for some very well made single action type pistol(s) to shoot, both are very well done, fit & finish are superb, but the USFA's are slightly less in cost. (Last time I checked). WBR 

[North Bender]

WBR, we're all familiar with the arguments about Colts being worth more and I shouldn't respond but here I go anyway.  I'm not convinced that new/used Colts will be worth significantly, or even any, more that a USFA.  As Colt writes, don't shoot their pistols or they will drop in value.  Used USFAs seem to fare at least as well in re-sale as used Colts, and may be easier to sell because you are pretty much guarenteed a well made pistol.  With Colt you are not - they've had their documented problems.  That's speculation, but so is the fact that in 20 years a 2007 Colt will be worth more than a 2007 Pre-War USFA.

[Fox Creek Kid]

It depends on what a person believes constitutes a "real" Colt. Even Colt doesn't use the two line patent date of the early models in the 1870's. Only the clones do. What was considered the most authentic Old West "re-make" were the Colt Centennial Models of the 1970's of which only 2002 were made of the Cavalry Colt as well as the 44-40 Frontier respectively, and even those have subtle differences from the originals. If you're a collector buy a new Colt. If you're a shooter buy a USFA or other clone of your choice.

[RRio]

It depends on what a person believes constitutes a "real" Colt. Even Colt doesn't use the two line patent date of the early models in the 1870's. Only the clones do. What was considered the most authentic Old West "re-make" were the Colt Centennial Models of the 1970's of which only 2002 were made of the Cavalry Colt as well as the 44-40 Frontier respectively, and even those have subtle differences from the originals. If you're a collector buy a new Colt. If you're a shooter buy a USFA or other clone of your choice.

Ten feet away, I defy anyone to tell the difference. Does it really matter that much?? Quite frankly, USFA has it's share of "collectibles" now, also. I own one such gun.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Ten feet away, I defy anyone to tell the difference.

Ten feet away most men over 50 couldn't tell the difference between Rosie O'Donell & a super model w/o their glasses. 

[Doc Sunrise]

Here is my two cents worth. 

If you had to ask if Colt was worth it, you should buy the USFA. 

In a heads up comparison of the quality between USFA & Colt, there are times the two are equal, and there are times Colt doesn't muster, but USFA's quality is consistent.  USFA's quality is consistently high, and their mission of high quality is consistently ongoing.  USFA is actively marketing and involving customers to improve upon their products and expand their product line.  Banjoman has asked on different occasions to shoot the hell out of their SAA's and observe to see how interior parts are holding out. 

Remember, you are comparing a USFA standard production firearm to Colt's Custom Shop production.  Colt's Custom shop has come a long way in improving their SAA after the absolutely horrible quality displayed in early 3rd generations.  In reality, Colt has been playing catch up since Bill Ruger showed them there is and always has been a market for Single Action Sixguns.  They should have already known that, but they do not listen to their customers.  The Corporate Culture just doesn't get it, and they have not invested in trying to find out.

USFA's Doug Donnely understands that quality speaks volumes, and efficiency in production and sales depends on investing on Marketing and R&D.  USFA isn't trying to ride on anything except pure & high American quality that they are consistently producing. 

Buy USFA!!!

[wdbarbe]

Hope my original question didn't offend anyone.  Actually, posting it here, I didn't expect to hear anything bad about USFA since we wouldn't be talking on this site if we didn't have an interest in them.
Was curious about the locking bolt thing though.  The explanation I got for why they are cut that was was in how they are machined.  When you guys work on your actions, (if you do anything), do you crown the bolt so it will fir the notch better?  Used to shoot old model Rugers in Fastdraw and we did that to improve the lock up.
Also, is a USFA frame forged?  Not that it matters much these days, just curious.
Hope you guys don't mind the questions.  Just trying to improve my education.
Thanks
Bill

[Doc Sunrise]

My understanding is as long as the bolt is cut within original dimensions, and timing is not off, you will not encounter problems.  As the bolt enters the lead it is already below the cylinder surface at the back cut of the notch.  When it falls completely within the notch, the back and front are of equal depth and not tapered.  This does not mean it is of less depth than the Colt notch.  With the Colt being tapered, the back cut is deeper and the front cut is shallow, where the USFA's back and front cut are deep.  If anything, this allows the USFA lock-up to be tighter all-around. 

If there is any skip in the bolt there are a few things that can be happening.
1.  Weak Bolt/Trigger spring, possibly loosened to make for a lighter trigger pull.
2.  Timing is off and the hand is driving the cylinder past full rotation.
3.  Hammer is traveling to far back and causing cylinder overtravel.

On your question about the frame, it is cut from a solid block of steel. 

[RRio]

Ten feet away most men over 50 couldn't tell the difference between Rosie O'Donell & a super model w/o their glasses. 

I'm 55, and I can tell you for a fact that I could tell the difference between Rosie and Jennifer Anniston at 100 yards away!! (She's such a hottie!) 

Investing is about cold hard logic and not emotion.

IMHO, guns are not much of investment. The returns are too low.

[RRio]

We have gotten off topic on this, so I may split it and start it's own thread.



"Guns as investments."

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,18045.0.html

[Virginia Gentleman]

No comparision on fit and finish, the USFA is light years better even since the rumor that Colt was supposed to be doing a better job.  I still see lots of overpolishing and dished screw holes on the Colt.  The Colt also has less than exact fitting when compared to a USFA in a side by side comparision.  I was at a gunshop the other day and we lined them up next to each other and it was obvious which gun looked sharper and better finished....the USFA by a mile.  If you want to give your hard earned dollars up for a name and collector value, buy the Colt, but if you want a super nice and the best built SAA out there, buy a USFA.