Poll: Revisit the Henry Big Boy. Should it be SASS legal?

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I have to agree with the opposition. Since much of what we do is based on period correctness, let's let that be the deciding factor. We needed Rugers at one time so we don't want to make half the shooters get new gear. We don't have to allow new stuff that is incorrect. If a manufacturer wants to make a new gun that diverges from original designs but can't be told from an original, that's one thing. Making a whole new design and pawning if off as being kinda like what we thought they could have been like if someone had just made one back then is a whole different issue. I don't like the Omni for the same reason.

Ok, I'm off my soapbox, now.

[Wrangler Rich]

Well, it's 2 to 1 to not let it be allowed.  I voted then read all the replys, there are a lot of good arguments for and against.  In my opinion, if Henry wanted to market the Big Boy to the Cowboy Action Shooter, they should have complied with the requirements listed in the SASS rules.

[Stump Water]

Could it be that some things just automatically get accepted because of the Company name?
I remember when the Omni Potent fell by the wayside as well.

Interesting point.  Somebody help me out here.... Wasn't the Omni turned down because it is a single-action version of a gun that was originally double-action?  Just like the Lightning and Thunderer?

[Advertising]

[Stump Water]

Nevermind.....

"The design of the Omni is a unique and Patented design. The centerline of the shooters hand and the gun barrel are on parallel axis. The Single Action revolver allows the force of the shot to travel through the shooters hand and by recoil turn the pistol upward under force of the cartridge. The Omni is designed so that the force of the cartridge is translated straight back - following the centerline of the gun established by the cylinder pin and barrel axis.

This results in much less muzzle flip so that you can stay on your target. The high spur hammer means that in most two handed shooting, like Cowboy Action Shooting, the hammer is easy to reach. Although not a gun of history, the Omni-Potent Six-Shooter is a modern classic with the lines of the 19th century."

[Stump Water]

"All the Rugers just seem to slide by without question."

Correction.  As JH said, all it has to do it "look cowboy".  All of the aforementioned cowboy-looking guns slid by.....


... except the Omni and the BB.

[Big Hext Finnigan]

And both of them advertised themselves as approved for SASS use BEFORE the fact.  It seems that is much more the issue..

Adios,

[44caliberkid]

I wouldn't object as much if they made a blued steel reciever version, I don't know what it is with Henry that they want to make everything brass!?  The blued steel Henry .22 is a real nice little rifle. And I'm not against brass frames as I shoot a '66 as my main CAS rifle, I just think the BB is butt ugly.

[Harve Curry]

 So that's it then?  The Henry Big Boy is just butt ugly?
The argument although winning by the poll numbers, is pretty thin. Emotions I guess.
I can think of at least 6 arms that did not exist.

Any short stroked lever action rifle.
Any revolver or rifle with coil springs working the hammer and hands in it.
Rugers in general.
 Ruger Old Army's.
Any birds head grip on a single action revolver, small or large frame.
SxS shotguns with phoney hammers.
Chinese 1887-so called, shotguns with trick actions , but are really a 1901 update with additional 2001 year updates.
So the period correct argument is out the window. 

The action of a Henry Big Boy is similar to a Marlin 336 round bolt lever action.

It should be allowed in the modern category with the rest of the western fantasy arms.

[doc]

No it should not be legal. I used to re-enact Civil War and a unauthentic rifle like that never would have been allowed but some AUTHENTIC Henrys were. How this company can claim this is a Henery rifle in the old sense is perplexing to me. It side ejects and loads like a 1866! I realize CAS doesn't hold to the same authenticity as Civil war but there has to be a line somewhere. This gun DID NOT EXIST in the old west! Internal modifcations like on the RV are OK because they don't really change the outward appearance of the gun. I don't beleive these "Henrys" offer any advantage, but if we will allow a gun that did not exist can I use a ar-15 with 9mm ammo? I know its just a game, but all games have rules.

[Micheal Fortune]

Doc said, " It side ejects and loads like a 1866!"  Ok, legal, case closed, move on...........

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Michael,
Actually it is nothing like the 1866. The Big Boy is loaded via the magazine tube just like a lot of .22 rifles and is angle eject. The 1866 loads from the side via a loading gate and ejects from the top. Sorry..........................

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Making a whole new design and pawning if off as being kinda like what we thought they could have been like if someone had just made one back then is a whole different issue. I don't like the Omni for the same reason.

Problem is we now have Cimmaron Lightnings and Thunderers, Rugers with 3" bbl's& birdshead grips, brass frame 92's,Russian shotguns with exposed outside non functioning hammers, non of which are authentic in design to any original design. Same with the Omni. I'm not in favor of any of them, just pointing out one sided bias's.

Glad to see we agree on that. I personally don't own anything that isn't period correct. Won't start, either.

[doc]

yep I goofed. But it still LOOKS like a 1866, so I reject it.

[Cant Dance]

I believe there is more at stake than just design when considering the BIG BOY. I was looking to get started in CAS and went out on my own to purchase a rifle. I saw the Henry and liked the feel of it.
I read the catalog and saw two big pages saying it was a great gun for CAS. I purchased the gun and took it home(got # 43).Imagine the let down I felt when I showed up at our local club for the first time and found out I had been decieved by Henry,s advertiseing. I Have joined SASS now and have to buy a new rifle and am stuck with a rifle that is very hard to sell. I am on disability because I have severe spinal cord injury and had to save for over a year to get this one. My point is that as far as I can tell SASS is about taking care of each other and being HONEST! we should not support a company that thinks it is OK to take advantage of new commers not familiar with all the rules and regs. yet.

Cant Dance #61061

[Harve Curry]

Howdy Cant Dance,
First let me say if you showed up here in New Mexico to shoot you'd be welcome to shoot your rifle at our regular monthly CAS matches. Probably alot of folks would like to see and try it to. The glitch is when it's a SASS sanctioned event it's by the SASS rule book.

Like the expressioin says " I don't have a dog in this fight". But I have been involved in CAS and SASS since 1986 and have helped organize and put on some of the biggest shoots in Arizona in those days. Your rifle should be allowed in the modern category. There are so many fantasy arms now that did not exist then, that the point of excluding the Henry Big Boy because it's not a historically accurate arm/design is moot.

I shoot original 1st gen Colts and Winchesters. Just the way things worked out for me, they are old and clunky but they are mine. Recently I got a Uberti 73 because it was a 44spl.That's my exception.

You don't say where you are? Have you been to just one location? I'd wait till after SASS & the TG's meet again before you sell or trade off your Big Boy rifle.
Was it a rep from the Henry Co / through their outlet who sold it to you, or some other FFL dealer?

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy, and thanks for asking

I said no last year and I told my TG no this year. Same reason. The Henry company's advertising is full of deceptions and half truths. And I'm not talking about the half truths of pulling the wool over unsuspecting buyer's eyes by claiming it is already accepted. I'm talking about purposely setting up a marketing campaign that implies they are what they are not. Their advertising is full of veiled references to the original Henry rifle and it's inventor and they make every effort to imply that they are somehow related to the original manufacturers of the Henry Rifle. They have not changed a word of that in the last year. Rule #3 in Gene's Cowboy Code is 'A Cowboy always tells the truth'. Call me naive and old fashioned, but I believe that. That is part of the ideal that we profess to uphold in Cowboy Shooting. I will not do business with a company that has that view of business ethics, whether it's in the USA or on the moon. And I don't think they have anyplace in Cowboy Action Shooting either.

Just This Cowboy's Humble Opinion.

[Cant Dance]

Thanks for your input Harve,
I live in Northern Colorado and just started shooting again. I wish I had gone out and met the guys before I made this purchase. I purchased it from a local dealer and do not believe in any way the salesman was trying to get over on me, as i stated I have #43 and that early in this contreversy none of us knew what was ahead of us concerning this rifle. After reading some of the other opinions posted ,is it possible Henry just screwed up and jumped the gun with this product. I do have to admit it has a fine feel to it and the action is as smooth as frogs hair.
I have read the rifle is clunky and cant agree.Maybe Henry should do something for the people that feel decieved.
Thanks agin,
Cant Dance

[Harve Curry]

Tony Guns,SASS #53435
SASS Wire Vet
Member # 16520

 Here's more:  posted October 13, 2004 08:42 AM                       
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Representatives from Henry Repeating Arms Company will attend the Thrid Annual Sass Convention in Decemember. We invite you to visit our booth. Henry Repeating Arms was the proud sponsor of all SASS Regional events in 2004. We also provided door prizes and literature for a large number of the club level events. For those who might be interested, we just began delivery of our Henry Big Boy 45 Colt. Should anyone wish to contact me, please do so by email at info@henryrepeating.com.

--------------------
Anthony Imperato, President Henry Repeating Arms
 

[Cant Dance]

OK Cowboys,
As far as the contreversy about The deceptive advertiseing, I have decided to give Henry the benefit of the doubt. I can easilly believe after talking to SASS members at a shoot,and being told they wanted a bigger version of thier .22 lever gun. Henry was doing what they thought we wanted, I can not imagine they would have wanted this trouble as a new company. As far as my Big boy is concerned, I have e-mailed Henry to try and work things out.
I will let every one know how it goes. Would'nt any of us want a second chance if we screwed up?, I think it is the Christian thing to do for our fellow brother. If Henry does any-thing for me or not We need to try to support American Jobs, Not Italian and Chinese . If you are American Buy American.
Vote Bush
Cant dance

[Cant Dance]

Told You I,d Let You Know,
I just got off the phone with Henry Rifle and was very satisfied after talking to the president of the company. Anthony was very concerned about my situation and left the decision up to me on what I want to do. Personaly, I am going to wait until after December to decide what to do. I hope the gun is made legal. I just want to be allowed to shoot my own game with the rifle of my choice.
Cant Dance