New "Original Henry Rifle" by the present-day Henry Repeating Arms Company

[Crow Choker]

Major 2: As I posted on the section for Henry Rifles and such, I stand corrected on NCOWS allowance to use HRA Company 'Henry ' rifles. Doesn't mean I agree with NCOWS not allowing Henry Big Boys or other firearms that may not be an exact or near replica of a pre-1900 firearm, but "is in the spirit" of firearms used during that era.  

[RattlesnakeJack]

Fortunately (... or unfortunately, I suppose, depending on your point of view ...) "in the spirit of firearms of the era" is not (and, to the best of my knowledge, never has been) a criterion for approval of a particular firearm in NCOWS, the entire philosophy of which is to stress historical authenticity.

The straight-forward relevant rule is: "Cartridge firearms shall be original to the period or authentic reproductions of original makes and models."

Now, I wish I had one of those lovely HRA Henry rifles (.... or even a Uberti-made one, for that matter ....) but my Uberti Model 1866 and 1873 rifles will have to do for now ....

[RattlesnakeJack]

Just as an afterthought, the general NCOWS rule would likely disallow the "Faux NWMP Carbine" that I had made a few years ago, because it isn't an "authentic" reproduction of an existing model.  In order to accommodate a pistol-caliber cartridge, it was built on an original Model 1873 action (manufactured in 1883) which my gunsmith had available.  Making or adapting pretty much everything else, he worked his magic to produce this for me -

[Advertising]

[OklaTom]

Just as an afterthought, the general NCOWS rule would likely disallow the "Faux NWMP Carbine" that I had made a few years ago, because it isn't an "authentic" reproduction of an existing model.  In order to accommodate a pistol-caliber cartridge, it was built on an original Model 1873 action (manufactured in 1883) which my gunsmith had available.  Making or adapting pretty much everything else, he worked his magic to produce this for me -

How long is the barrel on that?  I have one that is 30" barrel that looks just like that.  As I understand it, the 30" was referred to as "1873 Musket".  They were 44 WCF as far as I know - never seen one a different caliber.  Fore end did not have a cap though, but a third band.

http://www.lawranceordnance.com/shot_and_shell/rifles_ex_military/570678b.php

[Yuma Kid]

Rattlesnake Jack,
A friend of mine  back here in Nebraska built a similar NWMP rifle from a 1873 to go with his Monty persona.  Of course, back then there were no 1876 NWMP reproductions available. I believe everyone sort of considered it a cut-down "73" musket and never objected to his using it in NCOWS matches.  Sadly, my friend is no longer with us, I always wondered what became of his creation.
Yuma

[OklaTom]

I have one of the muskets, and it is a good shooter, Grant. Whose to say some gunsmith on the frontier did not cut down an 1873 Musket to make it quicker to handle?  I would have no problem with you shooting it in the Texas matches!

[RattlesnakeJack]

The barrel length on my "Faux NWMP carbine" is 22", same as on the .45-75 Model 1876 carbines.  The original 1873 action came from a .44WCF rifle, but my gunsmith made this carbine up in .45 Colt for me, since that is what I shoot in all my other CAS rifles and revolvers.  I now have one of the reproduction 1876 NWMP carbines (a Chaparral, in the 'proper' .45-75 chambering) but of course it isn't useable in CAS main matches.  Here it is photographed with the same NWMP Stations & Patrols map as background ....



.... demonstrating it at the present-day "Fort Museum" at Fort Macleod (first permanent base for the NWMP) in my persona as Rattlesnake Jack Robson, former NWMP constable and Scout for the Rocky Mountain Rangers during the 1885 North-West Rebellion -



..... and a couple of "old-timers" with the real thing -

[OklaTom]

I have one in 45-60 like the carbine in "Crossfire Trail". Heck of a good shooter. I'm still waiting on my Cimarron 1876 45-75. Then I'll have them all.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

RattlesnakeJack's "faux NWMP carbine" is a near-by-gosh replica of the Spanish contract 1879 cavalry carbine. In fact the full stock layout for the 1876 carbine as adopted by the NWMP was patterned after the 1879 Spanish contract 1873.

Whether an Old West provenance for Spanish contract arms is another matter. As RSJ points out, while the NWMP carbine does have provenance in spades, the caliber makes it impossible to use as a main match rifle/carbine.

[Tascosa Joe]

I have one of the muskets, and it is a good shooter, Grant. Whose to say some gunsmith on the frontier did not cut down an 1873 Musket to make it quicker to handle?  I would have no problem with you shooting it in the Texas matches!

Considering I am the Judge for the Texas Posse, I think the "73 short musket would be a no brainer.  It is really neat.  A couple times of year we use the big bore rifles for our main matches.  We do like to have folks download their cartridges a bit, 45-70 and 45-75 are a bit hard on the targets. 

[RattlesnakeJack]

Here is an image of the Spanish contract carbine Sir Charles refers to.  The sling swivels and and clearing rod are the most obvious differences; the rod makes me wonder how long the magazine tube was on these carbines ....

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I've never seen a Spanish Contract 1873, but I kinda had the idea that they snuck it in BESIDE the mag tube?

[Drydock]

Yeah, the rod is off to the side, like many of the Kropachecks and later French rifles, Lebel and Berthier.

[RattlesnakeJack]

Aaahhh .... that makes sense ....

[bushwhacker]

First let me say that I am sorry I haven't been on here much lately.  I have been down with my back.  I do not think that the 1860 Hanry by HRA needs  to be put on the approved list as a special add.  It is already approved by the wording for the "Winchester Models 1860,1866,1876,1886, and 1892 manufactured by Armi San Marco,Uberti, and others". If there is confusiion I will send a proposal to Bryan for the next congress to change the wording on the unapproved list to state " Henry Repeating Arms Big Boy and HRA side eject models".
   Mike Owen NCOWS Judge

[Major 2]

Thanks Mike, glad you're on the mend 

Now that we are back to the Subject ...
I'd agree "  change the wording on the unapproved list to state " Henry Repeating Arms Big Boy and HRA side eject models" is sufficient .

[Major 2]

Major 2: As I posted on the section for Henry Rifles and such, I stand corrected on NCOWS allowance to use HRA Company 'Henry ' rifles. Doesn't mean I agree with NCOWS not allowing Henry Big Boys or other firearms that may not be an exact or near replica of a pre-1900 firearm, but "is in the spirit" of firearms used during that era.  

I would refer you to NCOWS  the Tally Book & By-law #7  and in particular ...

7-2. No modern (post 1899) firearms will be allowed unless they are authentic reproductions of traditional firearms
or very markedly resemble traditional firearms. Traditional firearms are defined as those manufactured prior to or
during the era 1865-1899 and in documented use on the North American Frontier within that time period. Centerfire
calibers may substitute for original rim-fire calibers in reproduction firearms. Reproduction firearms chambered
in calibers not utilized in original models shall be allowed as long as such calibers are original to the period or are
otherwise approved by the National Congress of Old West Shootists. (Amended March, 2010)

>  The HRA Big Boy, with is front feed tube & tube follower is not a  reproduction of anything made prior to 1898 ..
Only in Lever configuration does the HRA design mimic anything of the lever actions.

I submit, it is correctly placed ...in the Unapproved list  

[Texas Lawdog]

Mike is still trying to work through the Harmone Therapy with his wife!

[bushwhacker]

Thanks for reminding me Lawdog.  I think I need that Beam back!!!